3 ms·

It not that I don't care. It that I am realistic about the situation. I would rather have Linux native options for my games rather than a translation layer. How

by DavyJones1983 6y ago

It not that I don't care. It that I am realistic about the situation. I would rather have Linux native options for my games rather than a translation layer. However for that to happen there has to be a viable market. In some ways I think a translation layer will make it less likely there will be a Native port because devs will just rely on the compatibility layer. I am aware of counter arguments to my position and I could be wrong. We will fin out in time. > your assumption that the translation layer is all that counts assumes driver parity between os'es. both for 3d & game streaming, there are significant performance and capability differences between os'es. Nope I never said that the translation layer is all that matters. But given everything else being equal (it normally is btw) it will always have lower performance. One native games Linux and Windows performance stats is roughtly the same framerate (if both games are using OpenGL or Vulkan). The difference in performance is 1-2FPS. If the game isn't native then then there will be a penalty in using a translation layer and compatibility issues. This aligns perfectly with what I have observed. > i'm not sure why you'd spend so much effort so loudly making your personal point about your expectations on a day when others are happy & revelling in the ongoing progress & hope & freedom & opening of possibilities that they want to see. I've left a comment on a website it isn't a huge effort. It takes me a few minutes to write a reply at most. In any event it is important for people to be informed by the pitfalls. This is mainly because I've seen many people tout all the positives of alternatives without people informing people of the potential pitfalls.

rektide 6y ago
> it's not that I don't care. It that I am realistic about the situation. I imo you are perhaps realistic about the present situation, in a closed way where experimenting is not worth your time. I don't think you've made much affordance for the progress & success & accomplishment, and I don't think you've recognized any of the good points of diversity, of value at stake here. this isn't at all an unreasonable contemporary stance towards the situation, but it's also considering only the real & not the possible, not the fruits that open source & cross-platform has been working towards. > In any event it is important for people to be informed by the pitfalls. agreed that this is a value. but I don't think people should have to take such thesis (Linux gaming good getting better) and antithesis (Linux gaming bad will not do waste of time) & smash together their own synthesis. I'd like to see some recognition that you do think there are worthy & compelling reasons for Linux gaming and/or tech like proton. I have tried, amid my "platitudes" to accept some dings, but I have not seen any places where you acknowledge or realize that there maybe something good for humanity at stake here. is there anything you could offer that shows that your realism also has a sense of the possible & virtuous here?
- DavyJones1983 6y ago
  Can you say anything without word salad? It is so dense to read. I distrust people that don't speak in plain English. > I'd like to see some recognition that you do think there are worthy & compelling reasons for Linux gaming and/or tech like proton. I have tried, amid my "platitudes" to accept some dings, but I have not seen any places where you acknowledge or realize that there maybe something good for humanity at stake here. Why? I don't owe you anything. Good for humanity? We are talking about video games. It is just entertainment we are talking about. Get a grip! If we were talking about access for information and censorship, I do think open source is important? Yes I do. That why I run Linux and try to use it in my work (however most companies want me to use MS tech). But I can create my own tools and software if I wish to. If you wanna muck around with proton and game on Linux. Do it. I am not stopping anyone.
  - rektide 6y ago
    > Good for humanity? We are talking about video games. It is just entertainment we are talking about. Get a grip! I picture you decrying the same thing about the telephone, in 1949 when the us government sued at&t & forced them to sell off Western Electric, the maker of telephones. And again in 1959 when Carterphone was created & AT&T sued, forbidding anyone else from connecting their own devices. It's just a telephone! What harm is there in consumers being forced to use only no-fuss officially endorsed solutions. You can say whatever you want, do whatever you want, as long as you say it & do it with an AT&T product. There are limits to innovation & diversity, & when left to rot, when too protected, systems ossify & stagnate. Beyond the scary platform wars afoot, I think Linux has absolutely cutting edge drivers in some places that can do things absolutely no other tech out there can. DMA-BUF & PipeWire are in early early days but already showing incredibly promising zero-copy streaming that few if any can replicate, for example. Linux drivers push advanced features to devices that mainstream support has moved past years ago, while increasingly offering best of breed implementations of cutting edge features & rapid adoption of Vulkan standards & extensions. The other topic worth mentioning is systems like Stadia, which is Linux based. Maybe that wasn't necessary, but it is a strong indicator to me that Linux is an interesting & worthwhile place for gaming. That there's interesting stories of system utilization & decreasing latency that no other platform could have provided. New frontiers are possible, because the platform is not closed, and that enables new interesting gaming to emerge.

rektide 6y ago

> it's not that I don't care. It that I am realistic about the situation. I imo you are perhaps realistic about the present situation, in a closed way where experimenting is not worth your time. I don't think you've made much affordance for the progress & success & accomplishment, and I don't think you've recognized any of the good points of diversity, of value at stake here. this isn't at all an unreasonable contemporary stance towards the situation, but it's also considering only the real & not the possible, not the fruits that open source & cross-platform has been working towards. > In any event it is important for people to be informed by the pitfalls. agreed that this is a value. but I don't think people should have to take such thesis (Linux gaming good getting better) and antithesis (Linux gaming bad will not do waste of time) & smash together their own synthesis. I'd like to see some recognition that you do think there are worthy & compelling reasons for Linux gaming and/or tech like proton. I have tried, amid my "platitudes" to accept some dings, but I have not seen any places where you acknowledge or realize that there maybe something good for humanity at stake here. is there anything you could offer that shows that your realism also has a sense of the possible & virtuous here?

DavyJones1983 6y ago
Can you say anything without word salad? It is so dense to read. I distrust people that don't speak in plain English. > I'd like to see some recognition that you do think there are worthy & compelling reasons for Linux gaming and/or tech like proton. I have tried, amid my "platitudes" to accept some dings, but I have not seen any places where you acknowledge or realize that there maybe something good for humanity at stake here. Why? I don't owe you anything. Good for humanity? We are talking about video games. It is just entertainment we are talking about. Get a grip! If we were talking about access for information and censorship, I do think open source is important? Yes I do. That why I run Linux and try to use it in my work (however most companies want me to use MS tech). But I can create my own tools and software if I wish to. If you wanna muck around with proton and game on Linux. Do it. I am not stopping anyone.
- rektide 6y ago
  > Good for humanity? We are talking about video games. It is just entertainment we are talking about. Get a grip! I picture you decrying the same thing about the telephone, in 1949 when the us government sued at&t & forced them to sell off Western Electric, the maker of telephones. And again in 1959 when Carterphone was created & AT&T sued, forbidding anyone else from connecting their own devices. It's just a telephone! What harm is there in consumers being forced to use only no-fuss officially endorsed solutions. You can say whatever you want, do whatever you want, as long as you say it & do it with an AT&T product. There are limits to innovation & diversity, & when left to rot, when too protected, systems ossify & stagnate. Beyond the scary platform wars afoot, I think Linux has absolutely cutting edge drivers in some places that can do things absolutely no other tech out there can. DMA-BUF & PipeWire are in early early days but already showing incredibly promising zero-copy streaming that few if any can replicate, for example. Linux drivers push advanced features to devices that mainstream support has moved past years ago, while increasingly offering best of breed implementations of cutting edge features & rapid adoption of Vulkan standards & extensions. The other topic worth mentioning is systems like Stadia, which is Linux based. Maybe that wasn't necessary, but it is a strong indicator to me that Linux is an interesting & worthwhile place for gaming. That there's interesting stories of system utilization & decreasing latency that no other platform could have provided. New frontiers are possible, because the platform is not closed, and that enables new interesting gaming to emerge.