4 ms·

All you've just stated is platitudes. Platitudes are for children. It will never be better than native because it is always going through a translation layer,

by DavyJones1983 6y ago

All you've just stated is platitudes. Platitudes are for children. It will never be better than native because it is always going through a translation layer, that coupled with streaming not actually working particularly well means that it will not be an option for the vast number of people. What people like yourself don't seem to grok is that a lot of people just want stuff that works and not a work in progress. I wanna relax and blow off some steam when playing games I don't want to have to work out why my game isn't working. All I am giving is my accurate account of my experiences with this technology.

rektide 6y ago
oh I get it I just don't care about those into not caring. i for one see too many interesting promising things as near at hand to let such willful unconcern reduce my gusto. your assumption that the translation layer is all that counts assumes driver parity between os'es. both for 3d & game streaming, there are significant performance and capability differences between os'es. but mostly, long run, i think it's important that the gaming ecosystem remain technically healthy. i see a lot of interest again in cross-platform tech like Vulkan. linux is thankfully in a great position to just run, very well, with modern engines. the long work building & optimizing compatibility systems has, thamlnkfully, given Linux a lot of experience to get fast & otherwise (audio, input, netcode, &c) capable, which all pays off again now that games run natively too. your honest account is welcome. you are free to not care, to assume this would only ever be an ill fit for you. i'm not sure why you'd spend so much effort so loudly making your personal point about your expectations on a day when others are happy & revelling in the ongoing progress & hope & freedom & opening of possibilities that they want to see. it's, again, ok that you are opting out. but a lot of us are excited that cutting edge gaming can & is happening in more diverse places than it used to, & we foresee only better.
- DavyJones1983 6y ago
  It not that I don't care. It that I am realistic about the situation. I would rather have Linux native options for my games rather than a translation layer. However for that to happen there has to be a viable market. In some ways I think a translation layer will make it less likely there will be a Native port because devs will just rely on the compatibility layer. I am aware of counter arguments to my position and I could be wrong. We will fin out in time. > your assumption that the translation layer is all that counts assumes driver parity between os'es. both for 3d & game streaming, there are significant performance and capability differences between os'es. Nope I never said that the translation layer is all that matters. But given everything else being equal (it normally is btw) it will always have lower performance. One native games Linux and Windows performance stats is roughtly the same framerate (if both games are using OpenGL or Vulkan). The difference in performance is 1-2FPS. If the game isn't native then then there will be a penalty in using a translation layer and compatibility issues. This aligns perfectly with what I have observed. > i'm not sure why you'd spend so much effort so loudly making your personal point about your expectations on a day when others are happy & revelling in the ongoing progress & hope & freedom & opening of possibilities that they want to see. I've left a comment on a website it isn't a huge effort. It takes me a few minutes to write a reply at most. In any event it is important for people to be informed by the pitfalls. This is mainly because I've seen many people tout all the positives of alternatives without people informing people of the potential pitfalls.
  - rektide 6y ago
    > it's not that I don't care. It that I am realistic about the situation. I imo you are perhaps realistic about the present situation, in a closed way where experimenting is not worth your time. I don't think you've made much affordance for the progress & success & accomplishment, and I don't think you've recognized any of the good points of diversity, of value at stake here. this isn't at all an unreasonable contemporary stance towards the situation, but it's also considering only the real & not the possible, not the fruits that open source & cross-platform has been working towards. > In any event it is important for people to be informed by the pitfalls. agreed that this is a value. but I don't think people should have to take such thesis (Linux gaming good getting better) and antithesis (Linux gaming bad will not do waste of time) & smash together their own synthesis. I'd like to see some recognition that you do think there are worthy & compelling reasons for Linux gaming and/or tech like proton. I have tried, amid my "platitudes" to accept some dings, but I have not seen any places where you acknowledge or realize that there maybe something good for humanity at stake here. is there anything you could offer that shows that your realism also has a sense of the possible & virtuous here?
    - DavyJones1983 6y ago
      Can you say anything without word salad? It is so dense to read. I distrust people that don't speak in plain English. > I'd like to see some recognition that you do think there are worthy & compelling reasons for Linux gaming and/or tech like proton. I have tried, amid my "platitudes" to accept some dings, but I have not seen any places where you acknowledge or realize that there maybe something good for humanity at stake here. Why? I don't owe you anything. Good for humanity? We are talking about video games. It is just entertainment we are talking about. Get a grip! If we were talking about access for information and censorship, I do think open source is important? Yes I do. That why I run Linux and try to use it in my work (however most companies want me to use MS tech). But I can create my own tools and software if I wish to. If you wanna muck around with proton and game on Linux. Do it. I am not stopping anyone.
      - rektide 6y ago

rektide 6y ago

oh I get it I just don't care about those into not caring. i for one see too many interesting promising things as near at hand to let such willful unconcern reduce my gusto. your assumption that the translation layer is all that counts assumes driver parity between os'es. both for 3d & game streaming, there are significant performance and capability differences between os'es. but mostly, long run, i think it's important that the gaming ecosystem remain technically healthy. i see a lot of interest again in cross-platform tech like Vulkan. linux is thankfully in a great position to just run, very well, with modern engines. the long work building & optimizing compatibility systems has, thamlnkfully, given Linux a lot of experience to get fast & otherwise (audio, input, netcode, &c) capable, which all pays off again now that games run natively too. your honest account is welcome. you are free to not care, to assume this would only ever be an ill fit for you. i'm not sure why you'd spend so much effort so loudly making your personal point about your expectations on a day when others are happy & revelling in the ongoing progress & hope & freedom & opening of possibilities that they want to see. it's, again, ok that you are opting out. but a lot of us are excited that cutting edge gaming can & is happening in more diverse places than it used to, & we foresee only better.

DavyJones1983 6y ago
It not that I don't care. It that I am realistic about the situation. I would rather have Linux native options for my games rather than a translation layer. However for that to happen there has to be a viable market. In some ways I think a translation layer will make it less likely there will be a Native port because devs will just rely on the compatibility layer. I am aware of counter arguments to my position and I could be wrong. We will fin out in time. > your assumption that the translation layer is all that counts assumes driver parity between os'es. both for 3d & game streaming, there are significant performance and capability differences between os'es. Nope I never said that the translation layer is all that matters. But given everything else being equal (it normally is btw) it will always have lower performance. One native games Linux and Windows performance stats is roughtly the same framerate (if both games are using OpenGL or Vulkan). The difference in performance is 1-2FPS. If the game isn't native then then there will be a penalty in using a translation layer and compatibility issues. This aligns perfectly with what I have observed. > i'm not sure why you'd spend so much effort so loudly making your personal point about your expectations on a day when others are happy & revelling in the ongoing progress & hope & freedom & opening of possibilities that they want to see. I've left a comment on a website it isn't a huge effort. It takes me a few minutes to write a reply at most. In any event it is important for people to be informed by the pitfalls. This is mainly because I've seen many people tout all the positives of alternatives without people informing people of the potential pitfalls.
- rektide 6y ago
  > it's not that I don't care. It that I am realistic about the situation. I imo you are perhaps realistic about the present situation, in a closed way where experimenting is not worth your time. I don't think you've made much affordance for the progress & success & accomplishment, and I don't think you've recognized any of the good points of diversity, of value at stake here. this isn't at all an unreasonable contemporary stance towards the situation, but it's also considering only the real & not the possible, not the fruits that open source & cross-platform has been working towards. > In any event it is important for people to be informed by the pitfalls. agreed that this is a value. but I don't think people should have to take such thesis (Linux gaming good getting better) and antithesis (Linux gaming bad will not do waste of time) & smash together their own synthesis. I'd like to see some recognition that you do think there are worthy & compelling reasons for Linux gaming and/or tech like proton. I have tried, amid my "platitudes" to accept some dings, but I have not seen any places where you acknowledge or realize that there maybe something good for humanity at stake here. is there anything you could offer that shows that your realism also has a sense of the possible & virtuous here?
  - DavyJones1983 6y ago
    Can you say anything without word salad? It is so dense to read. I distrust people that don't speak in plain English. > I'd like to see some recognition that you do think there are worthy & compelling reasons for Linux gaming and/or tech like proton. I have tried, amid my "platitudes" to accept some dings, but I have not seen any places where you acknowledge or realize that there maybe something good for humanity at stake here. Why? I don't owe you anything. Good for humanity? We are talking about video games. It is just entertainment we are talking about. Get a grip! If we were talking about access for information and censorship, I do think open source is important? Yes I do. That why I run Linux and try to use it in my work (however most companies want me to use MS tech). But I can create my own tools and software if I wish to. If you wanna muck around with proton and game on Linux. Do it. I am not stopping anyone.
    - rektide 6y ago