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It’s interesting that this is the exact opposite of how we think about crime and punishment. All criminals are like the pilot, just the person who did the actio

It’s interesting that this is the exact opposite of how we think about crime and punishment. All criminals are like the pilot, just the person who did the action. But the reasons for them becoming criminals is a seldom taken into account. The emphasis is on blaming and punishing them rather than figuring out the cause and stopping it happening again.

Talinx 6y ago
To stop the cause from happening is not always feasible. It might also be against human rights.
- jonplackett 6y ago
  Not always but a lot of crime seems like it could be avoided if more effort were put into prevention - better funding for education etc. It’s not rocket science.
  - Talinx 6y ago
    I agree, there are things that can and should be done to prevent crime. But good prevention is really hard, education being a good example. Today most people have internet access and you can educate yourself there (Wikipedia, Khan Academy, YouTube...). Access to education is not a problem - getting people to educate themselves is. Nerds do it on their own, many don't. It takes individual effort to get children's minds to learn. You need teachers who like teaching and can get children excited about the world. It's not as easy as giving everyone an iPad, funding without understanding the problems doesn't work. (I guess there are situations where funding easily solves problems depending on your country and school.) (I'm not against funding education, I just wish it would happen in a smarter way.)
fireant 6y ago
The difference is the intent. The criminal wants to do bad things while the pilot does not want anyone to get harmed.
- cdaven 6y ago
  Sure, intent is relevant, but the example was "a suicidal pilot flying the plane into a mountain on purpose". Isn't killing all those passengers a crime?
  - ckuehne 6y ago
    Of course it is. That is why, had the pilot survived, he/she would have faced criminal charges.
    - jonplackett 6y ago
      It’s not one or the other, especially if there’s intent. Yes punish, but don’t scapegoat the whole systemic problems on the individual and then think you solved the problem by creating a ‘deterrence’ to others. Life doesn’t work that way. Imagine if every serious crime prompted a review and action to stop it ever happening again - imagine how much further along we’d be to a more just society.
cdaven 6y ago
The criminal has to take the punishment for his actions (and extenuating circumstances are taken into consideration), but at the same time, people, companies and society, have learned that we need protection and prevention. So you could argue that there have been a lot of post-mortems through the ages, with great ideas thrown around on how to avoid crimes being committed (at least against me/us). It's not just about locking people up.
pc86 6y ago
Most airplane crashes aren't intentional. When's the last time someone accidentally committed armed robbery?
- jonplackett 6y ago
  Lots of people would probably rather not commit crime. Not everyone, but a lot of crime is people who see no other way. People society usually failed while they were children. It’s still all a big system. If you don’t change the cause you’ll continue to get the same results. Even someone actively committing crime like the armed robber you describe are still part of that. Motivation is just the affect of previous events. You can say this without condoning criminal acts.

Talinx 6y ago

To stop the cause from happening is not always feasible. It might also be against human rights.

jonplackett 6y ago
Not always but a lot of crime seems like it could be avoided if more effort were put into prevention - better funding for education etc. It’s not rocket science.
- Talinx 6y ago
  I agree, there are things that can and should be done to prevent crime. But good prevention is really hard, education being a good example. Today most people have internet access and you can educate yourself there (Wikipedia, Khan Academy, YouTube...). Access to education is not a problem - getting people to educate themselves is. Nerds do it on their own, many don't. It takes individual effort to get children's minds to learn. You need teachers who like teaching and can get children excited about the world. It's not as easy as giving everyone an iPad, funding without understanding the problems doesn't work. (I guess there are situations where funding easily solves problems depending on your country and school.) (I'm not against funding education, I just wish it would happen in a smarter way.)

fireant 6y ago

The difference is the intent. The criminal wants to do bad things while the pilot does not want anyone to get harmed.

cdaven 6y ago
Sure, intent is relevant, but the example was "a suicidal pilot flying the plane into a mountain on purpose". Isn't killing all those passengers a crime?
- ckuehne 6y ago
  Of course it is. That is why, had the pilot survived, he/she would have faced criminal charges.
  - jonplackett 6y ago
    It’s not one or the other, especially if there’s intent. Yes punish, but don’t scapegoat the whole systemic problems on the individual and then think you solved the problem by creating a ‘deterrence’ to others. Life doesn’t work that way. Imagine if every serious crime prompted a review and action to stop it ever happening again - imagine how much further along we’d be to a more just society.

cdaven 6y ago

The criminal has to take the punishment for his actions (and extenuating circumstances are taken into consideration), but at the same time, people, companies and society, have learned that we need protection and prevention. So you could argue that there have been a lot of post-mortems through the ages, with great ideas thrown around on how to avoid crimes being committed (at least against me/us). It's not just about locking people up.

pc86 6y ago

Most airplane crashes aren't intentional. When's the last time someone accidentally committed armed robbery?

jonplackett 6y ago
Lots of people would probably rather not commit crime. Not everyone, but a lot of crime is people who see no other way. People society usually failed while they were children. It’s still all a big system. If you don’t change the cause you’ll continue to get the same results. Even someone actively committing crime like the armed robber you describe are still part of that. Motivation is just the affect of previous events. You can say this without condoning criminal acts.