3 ms·

From my experience, which is a single datum, many people leaving are those in towns with a very small minority population. Northern and rural california towns.

by saboot 6y ago

From my experience, which is a single datum, many people leaving are those in towns with a very small minority population. Northern and rural california towns. Not the urban areas. Residents there feel increasingly threatened by scenes of racial protests in the state, fearing that somehow they'll be subject to oppression. So it's very easy to pack up and leave. This isn't a new phenomenon, people moved from the south westward after the civil war, the white flight of detroit during the civil rights period, I do believe we are seeing another similar wave in motion now. And for my own insight on this, people are not usually entirely honest, except when in company of others of similar mindset. Over hearing at a family gathering, I learned that the main reason a relative of mine is leaving california for maine is because "there will be less crime because there are fewer black people", despite living in one of the whitest towns in the state.

TulliusCicero 6y ago
> From my experience, which is a single datum, many people leaving are those in towns with a very small minority population. Northern and rural california towns. Not the urban areas. Rent prices in SF are down like 20-30% compared to last year. That doesn't mean 20-30% of people have left, obviously, I'd probably guess just a few percent have gone, but that's still a good chunk of people for an area that more recently was growing with huge demand.
- saboot 6y ago
  I live in the valley, we are completely overwhelmed by people moving from the bay to the valley right now. I don't have numbers on how many people leaving SF are moving within state vs out of state but I would not be surprised if it's a large portion.
  - dver 6y ago
    Staying within 1 to 2 days a week commute to the office range keeps you from getting a 10-20% pay cut maybe?
    - ghaff 6y ago
      Pay adjustments aside--and those might absolutely come into play with lower cost areas of CA as well--it's not hard to imagine that: 1.) Some people might want to remain in CA for various reasons and 2.) Pay considerations, there's something to be said for being able to drive to an office now and then rather than having to get on a plane.
  - AlchemistCamp 6y ago
    If I were to work for a bay area company again, I'd definitely want to be in California. In the rest of the US, I'd be concerned about overreaching non-competes affecting my ability to create side projects and tutorials.
- fossuser 6y ago
  Yeah three of my friends have moved away from the peninsula now that they can work remote. Prior to that three others moved away when they had kids. The NIMBYs and prop13 are unnecessarily hurting everyone except those that bought property a long time ago and pay relatively no property tax while suppressing any new housing and forcing new buyers to subsidize them. Median housing price on the peninsula is 3 million, you can get a tiny old condo from the 60s for 1.3M if you can find it. SF is a little better with some newer apartments available in the 800k - 1.2M range and some older stuff that's cheaper. It sucks and it's totally unnecessary. Allowing more housing to be built would reduce the cost. NYC does it, Tokyo does it, it's possible and would be better for everyone except the NIMBYs leveraging their luck for their own self-interest. In the context of historical exclusionary zoning and explicitly racist policy about restricting housing access framing it as 'local control' and 'protecting neighborhood character' is just a way to continue to block people from entering the community to protect a small subset of owner's self-interest that was protected by historically unfair policy. There's a deep irony seeing 'black lives matter' signs on someone's lawn right next to anti-housing council member election signs. Rent-Control, 'affordable' housing are bad hacks that make things worse. We need to build more supply of everything and a lot of it. The current situation also sucks for start-ups where massive costs get eaten up by landlords. Here you've either had one or two successful exits or live with 3 roommates (or your parents are rich, or are locals). It'd be so much less stressful if housing cost was something you didn't have to worry about or it was possible to actually buy something. What if there was enough supply to buy a place for 400-500k? Maybe then my friends wouldn't have had to leave to start a family live without roommates. My only hope is something like SB50 eventually passes and takes local control of zoning away from these people: - https://www.sanjoseinside.com/the-fly/cupertino-council-contenders-draw-fire-for-nimby-hot-takes/ https://www.sanjoseinside.com/the-fly/cupertino-council-cont... - https://twitter.com/lydia_kou/status/857012783895912450?s=20 https://twitter.com/lydia_kou/status/857012783895912450?s=20
throwaway76266 6y ago
>many people leaving are those in towns with a very small minority population. People are fleeing SF proper and Oakland. Those are not towns with very small minority populations. The people who are fleeing are the ones that have the means to, and work remotely. >Residents there feel increasingly threatened by scenes of racial protests in the state, fearing that somehow they'll be subject to oppression. Residents in SF, Oakland, etc. are tired of their cities being looted, tired of stepping over feces, urine pools, and needles, tired of being accosted by the aggressive homeless, tired of paying some of the world's highest rent for a city they can no longer enjoy (shut down), tired of being robbed and victimized by "teens", etc. >And for my own insight on this, people are not usually entirely honest, except when in company of others of similar mindset. I agree. Liberals and leftists screech about how wonderful diversity is, but always end up fleeing for whiter, more homogeneous cities, states, and countries. >Over hearing at a family gathering, I learned that the main reason a relative of mine is leaving california for maine is because "there will be less crime because there are fewer black people" That is an objective fact though, whether you like it or not. The amount of mental gymnastics leftists have to play around that is astounding.
- objectivetruth 6y ago
  would love to see the correlation between "throwaway" accounts and racist invective like the above.

by saboot 6y ago

TulliusCicero 6y ago

> From my experience, which is a single datum, many people leaving are those in towns with a very small minority population. Northern and rural california towns. Not the urban areas. Rent prices in SF are down like 20-30% compared to last year. That doesn't mean 20-30% of people have left, obviously, I'd probably guess just a few percent have gone, but that's still a good chunk of people for an area that more recently was growing with huge demand.

saboot 6y ago
I live in the valley, we are completely overwhelmed by people moving from the bay to the valley right now. I don't have numbers on how many people leaving SF are moving within state vs out of state but I would not be surprised if it's a large portion.
- dver 6y ago
  Staying within 1 to 2 days a week commute to the office range keeps you from getting a 10-20% pay cut maybe?
  - ghaff 6y ago
    Pay adjustments aside--and those might absolutely come into play with lower cost areas of CA as well--it's not hard to imagine that: 1.) Some people might want to remain in CA for various reasons and 2.) Pay considerations, there's something to be said for being able to drive to an office now and then rather than having to get on a plane.
- AlchemistCamp 6y ago
  If I were to work for a bay area company again, I'd definitely want to be in California. In the rest of the US, I'd be concerned about overreaching non-competes affecting my ability to create side projects and tutorials.
fossuser 6y ago
Yeah three of my friends have moved away from the peninsula now that they can work remote. Prior to that three others moved away when they had kids. The NIMBYs and prop13 are unnecessarily hurting everyone except those that bought property a long time ago and pay relatively no property tax while suppressing any new housing and forcing new buyers to subsidize them. Median housing price on the peninsula is 3 million, you can get a tiny old condo from the 60s for 1.3M if you can find it. SF is a little better with some newer apartments available in the 800k - 1.2M range and some older stuff that's cheaper. It sucks and it's totally unnecessary. Allowing more housing to be built would reduce the cost. NYC does it, Tokyo does it, it's possible and would be better for everyone except the NIMBYs leveraging their luck for their own self-interest. In the context of historical exclusionary zoning and explicitly racist policy about restricting housing access framing it as 'local control' and 'protecting neighborhood character' is just a way to continue to block people from entering the community to protect a small subset of owner's self-interest that was protected by historically unfair policy. There's a deep irony seeing 'black lives matter' signs on someone's lawn right next to anti-housing council member election signs. Rent-Control, 'affordable' housing are bad hacks that make things worse. We need to build more supply of everything and a lot of it. The current situation also sucks for start-ups where massive costs get eaten up by landlords. Here you've either had one or two successful exits or live with 3 roommates (or your parents are rich, or are locals). It'd be so much less stressful if housing cost was something you didn't have to worry about or it was possible to actually buy something. What if there was enough supply to buy a place for 400-500k? Maybe then my friends wouldn't have had to leave to start a family live without roommates. My only hope is something like SB50 eventually passes and takes local control of zoning away from these people: - https://www.sanjoseinside.com/the-fly/cupertino-council-contenders-draw-fire-for-nimby-hot-takes/ https://www.sanjoseinside.com/the-fly/cupertino-council-cont... - https://twitter.com/lydia_kou/status/857012783895912450?s=20 https://twitter.com/lydia_kou/status/857012783895912450?s=20

throwaway76266 6y ago

>many people leaving are those in towns with a very small minority population. People are fleeing SF proper and Oakland. Those are not towns with very small minority populations. The people who are fleeing are the ones that have the means to, and work remotely. >Residents there feel increasingly threatened by scenes of racial protests in the state, fearing that somehow they'll be subject to oppression. Residents in SF, Oakland, etc. are tired of their cities being looted, tired of stepping over feces, urine pools, and needles, tired of being accosted by the aggressive homeless, tired of paying some of the world's highest rent for a city they can no longer enjoy (shut down), tired of being robbed and victimized by "teens", etc. >And for my own insight on this, people are not usually entirely honest, except when in company of others of similar mindset. I agree. Liberals and leftists screech about how wonderful diversity is, but always end up fleeing for whiter, more homogeneous cities, states, and countries. >Over hearing at a family gathering, I learned that the main reason a relative of mine is leaving california for maine is because "there will be less crime because there are fewer black people" That is an objective fact though, whether you like it or not. The amount of mental gymnastics leftists have to play around that is astounding.

objectivetruth 6y ago
would love to see the correlation between "throwaway" accounts and racist invective like the above.