3 ms·

DARPA literally gives grants to anyone with innovative/crazy/out of the ordinary ideas. It's the opposite in the EU, big companies get funding to develop somet

by bserge 6y ago

DARPA literally gives grants to anyone with innovative/crazy/out of the ordinary ideas. It's the opposite in the EU, big companies get funding to develop something. Startups have no chance, unless someone knows someone.

vetinari 6y ago
I agree, DARPA objective was to build industry; EU program objectives are to move tax payer's money into private pockets. However, my argument to parent was, that DARPA was also top-down, and it was a success.
- joejerryronnie 6y ago
  I think the most successful model is when large gov agencies (DoD, NIH, etc) fund core, basic research and then intermediaries (Research orgs, Universities, etc) allow that research to be spun off into private companies. Stanford’s approach has been pretty successful.
0xfaded 6y ago
And don't be fooled by all this "start-up friendly" propaganda. Yes, funding does exist. But it will be doled out $50k at a time. And remember to log all your hours and write reports for the program administrators. I watched a talk by David Graeber, author of On Bullsh*t Jobs. He observes that actual service sector jobs, where someone does something for someone else, have made up a pretty constant 20% of the economy. According to wikipedia, 74.7% of Europe's economy is services [0]. It's going to be a rude awakening when the curtains are pulled back on a 55% bullshit economy. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union#Services https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union#...
LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
Not necessarily, see https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/finance-funding/getting-funding/eu-funding-programmes/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/finance-funding/gettin... You can apply even as a single person, just need to know your ways through the bureaucracy, how to formulate your application, business plan, etc. Not easy, but doable. Or use one of the many services which support you in doing that. There seems to be a service industry around that nowadays, which wasn't the case when I did a few years ago, or been to scroogy and stubborn because I can speak and write fucking AMTSDEUTSCH if I have to :)
- bserge 6y ago
  I really hope that works for already functioning small business, because I did write and apply everywhere I could. I have a British friend who would work with me on this idea of an appliance reuse/recycling factory in NRW (because it's the closest state to the best suppliers from FR/DE/BE/NL). We've done the research, there's little competition and we could be profitable within a year. To summarize the idea: take broken/used/returned electronics like washers, fridges, dishwashers, dryers, TVs, laptops, smartphones. Fix whatever can be fixed and sell as refurbished, break down the rest and sell for parts and scrap. Seems simple? That's because it is, at least the basic idea. The hard parts are securing suppliers and selling everything for a profit. But we believe it can be done, because there's a huge market for refurbs, and especially spare parts. There's a myriad of small repair shops all over EU that are starved for parts. I used to get them for cheap from my previous employer and sell them at a profit. I never had enough parts to satisfy the demand. The UK has several big companies and a whole lot of small ones. Mainland EU is lacking, there's a few big recyclers in the Netherlands, everywhere else it's just small companies that don't seem to aim for scale. I could publish the business plan if anyone's interested. At this point, I don't care if it's me or anyone else who does it. But it has to aim for scale, it's a must have for the environment.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
    I'm not sure about that. It seems to work for refurbished computers, which are end of lease. For general appliances I doubt it, because not energy efficient enough, liability, warranty and so on. Of course common sense would say refurbishing is better for the environment, but common sense? EU? Anyways, I wish you luck/success.
    - bserge 6y ago
      Computers are actually the more competitive electronics. Probably because they're easy to acquire, refurbish and transport. Refurbished home appliances like washers/fridges/dryers/dishwashers/ovens are a good product to sell, there are lots of small shops that buy dozens or hundreds of them for resale, and of course, lots of individuals furnishing their own place. Energy efficiency for them is not going up anytime soon, they've been stuck in the same ratings for more than a decade. They're simply as efficient as possible already. Liability and warranty would be handled by the resellers, and if agreed, by us. Mostly by return and replacement, but it could be feasible to create an on-site repair service. We can provide the necessary parts, too. The thing is, a properly fixed appliance will last just as long as a new one. In fact, the failure rate on used electronics can often be lower - newer models that use a new internal design fail more than older, "proven" appliances. The saving grace for them are the warranty and return policies. Customers will still give 4-5 stars even if their first purchase was a dud, but it was swiftly replaced with another one. That always surprises me, btw. It's like, "oh my new Indesit fridge was DOA, but they replaced it the next day. 5 stars." Anyway, a big downside is that transportation costs are rather high. And they can only be loaded by forklifts with special attachments, or several people at the same time. However, the more thoroughly they're checked, repaired and cleaned, the fewer returns, the less money spent on transportation.

by bserge 6y ago

vetinari 6y ago

I agree, DARPA objective was to build industry; EU program objectives are to move tax payer's money into private pockets. However, my argument to parent was, that DARPA was also top-down, and it was a success.

joejerryronnie 6y ago
I think the most successful model is when large gov agencies (DoD, NIH, etc) fund core, basic research and then intermediaries (Research orgs, Universities, etc) allow that research to be spun off into private companies. Stanford’s approach has been pretty successful.

0xfaded 6y ago

And don't be fooled by all this "start-up friendly" propaganda. Yes, funding does exist. But it will be doled out $50k at a time. And remember to log all your hours and write reports for the program administrators. I watched a talk by David Graeber, author of On Bullsh*t Jobs. He observes that actual service sector jobs, where someone does something for someone else, have made up a pretty constant 20% of the economy. According to wikipedia, 74.7% of Europe's economy is services [0]. It's going to be a rude awakening when the curtains are pulled back on a 55% bullshit economy. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union#Services https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union#...

LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago

Not necessarily, see https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/finance-funding/getting-funding/eu-funding-programmes/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/finance-funding/gettin... You can apply even as a single person, just need to know your ways through the bureaucracy, how to formulate your application, business plan, etc. Not easy, but doable. Or use one of the many services which support you in doing that. There seems to be a service industry around that nowadays, which wasn't the case when I did a few years ago, or been to scroogy and stubborn because I can speak and write fucking AMTSDEUTSCH if I have to :)

bserge 6y ago
I really hope that works for already functioning small business, because I did write and apply everywhere I could. I have a British friend who would work with me on this idea of an appliance reuse/recycling factory in NRW (because it's the closest state to the best suppliers from FR/DE/BE/NL). We've done the research, there's little competition and we could be profitable within a year. To summarize the idea: take broken/used/returned electronics like washers, fridges, dishwashers, dryers, TVs, laptops, smartphones. Fix whatever can be fixed and sell as refurbished, break down the rest and sell for parts and scrap. Seems simple? That's because it is, at least the basic idea. The hard parts are securing suppliers and selling everything for a profit. But we believe it can be done, because there's a huge market for refurbs, and especially spare parts. There's a myriad of small repair shops all over EU that are starved for parts. I used to get them for cheap from my previous employer and sell them at a profit. I never had enough parts to satisfy the demand. The UK has several big companies and a whole lot of small ones. Mainland EU is lacking, there's a few big recyclers in the Netherlands, everywhere else it's just small companies that don't seem to aim for scale. I could publish the business plan if anyone's interested. At this point, I don't care if it's me or anyone else who does it. But it has to aim for scale, it's a must have for the environment.
- LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
  I'm not sure about that. It seems to work for refurbished computers, which are end of lease. For general appliances I doubt it, because not energy efficient enough, liability, warranty and so on. Of course common sense would say refurbishing is better for the environment, but common sense? EU? Anyways, I wish you luck/success.
  - bserge 6y ago
    Computers are actually the more competitive electronics. Probably because they're easy to acquire, refurbish and transport. Refurbished home appliances like washers/fridges/dryers/dishwashers/ovens are a good product to sell, there are lots of small shops that buy dozens or hundreds of them for resale, and of course, lots of individuals furnishing their own place. Energy efficiency for them is not going up anytime soon, they've been stuck in the same ratings for more than a decade. They're simply as efficient as possible already. Liability and warranty would be handled by the resellers, and if agreed, by us. Mostly by return and replacement, but it could be feasible to create an on-site repair service. We can provide the necessary parts, too. The thing is, a properly fixed appliance will last just as long as a new one. In fact, the failure rate on used electronics can often be lower - newer models that use a new internal design fail more than older, "proven" appliances. The saving grace for them are the warranty and return policies. Customers will still give 4-5 stars even if their first purchase was a dud, but it was swiftly replaced with another one. That always surprises me, btw. It's like, "oh my new Indesit fridge was DOA, but they replaced it the next day. 5 stars." Anyway, a big downside is that transportation costs are rather high. And they can only be loaded by forklifts with special attachments, or several people at the same time. However, the more thoroughly they're checked, repaired and cleaned, the fewer returns, the less money spent on transportation.