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Interesting point - I've always thought the stoic ideal was that each individual takes charge / responsibility for their own life and tries to live a good life.

Interesting point - I've always thought the stoic ideal was that each individual takes charge / responsibility for their own life and tries to live a good life. THEN, if everyone is doing that, as a society, we are better off. Like it is this "first focus on yourself, and then maybe the world around you might be a bit better for everyone" type mentality. So, the best version of you could involve sharing and hoping that others follow a similar philosophy - but at the same time you need to not define yourself as having failed if others disregard it?

ByteJockey 6y ago
If I had to boil it down to a quick sentence, I don't think I'd use the personal responsibility approach. I think I'd go with something like "Not putting value on things outside your control."
- bserge 6y ago
  That's a great way to summarize it.
- stanrivers 6y ago
  But I just think that is not completely correct either - a big part of Stoicism, unless I am missing something, is also being a better person holistically. A world where everyone doesn't care about things generally (like a popular negative generalization of Stoicism) doesn't ever work. A world where everyone is focused on being the best version of themselves might work better than everyone being focused on making the best world. I think that gets looped into Stoic teaching as well.
  - ByteJockey 6y ago
    Y'know, I don't think I've ever heard someone use that exact sentence, but I think it's an ok distillation for parts of stoicism (depending on your definition of better, that word has a lot of baggage when applied to human beings), especially the parts Seneca focuses on if I'm recalling them correctly. Ultimately I think the problem is trying to distill it down to a single sentence. Perhaps I was in error in attempting to provide a better example of something that cannot be done adequately, it may have just caused more confusion.

ByteJockey 6y ago

If I had to boil it down to a quick sentence, I don't think I'd use the personal responsibility approach. I think I'd go with something like "Not putting value on things outside your control."

bserge 6y ago
That's a great way to summarize it.
stanrivers 6y ago
But I just think that is not completely correct either - a big part of Stoicism, unless I am missing something, is also being a better person holistically. A world where everyone doesn't care about things generally (like a popular negative generalization of Stoicism) doesn't ever work. A world where everyone is focused on being the best version of themselves might work better than everyone being focused on making the best world. I think that gets looped into Stoic teaching as well.
- ByteJockey 6y ago
  Y'know, I don't think I've ever heard someone use that exact sentence, but I think it's an ok distillation for parts of stoicism (depending on your definition of better, that word has a lot of baggage when applied to human beings), especially the parts Seneca focuses on if I'm recalling them correctly. Ultimately I think the problem is trying to distill it down to a single sentence. Perhaps I was in error in attempting to provide a better example of something that cannot be done adequately, it may have just caused more confusion.