8 ms·

You’re allowed to say whatever you want and I’m allowed to sue you if you tell lies about me. Twitter and other social media platforms are made exempt from this

You’re allowed to say whatever you want and I’m allowed to sue you if you tell lies about me. Twitter and other social media platforms are made exempt from this because they are hosting other people’s content and they’d be sued into oblivion if they could be held responsible for what everyone posts on their service. But as soon as they start censoring whatever they want, they aren’t a true public platform anymore, the content you see is what they want you to see. So they should also be liable to civil suits if the information they allow to disseminate is not true. This isn’t about the second amendment, IMO.

DominoTree 6y ago
It's DEFINITELY not about the second amendment.
- bigbubba 6y ago
  I don't know, maybe content recommendations systems could be considered weapons...
michaelmrose 6y ago
They were NEVER a public platform they were always a private company. Its a commonly repeated untruth that as soon as they start moderating they cease to be protected. Nothing could be further from the truth 230 specifically protects their right to moderate.
- Zak 6y ago
  People advocating that position usually have a very specific idea about how they want sites to be moderated, but section 230 is about not treating platforms as if they're the speaker when one of their users posts illegal speech, regardless of moderation. Of course, politically biased speech is not illegal, so it's really about punishing platforms for moderation somebody doesn't like. A more reasonable target for a 230 carve-out would be recommendation algorithms. Those aren't merely passively hosting user-generated content, but actively selecting what they think you should see to keep you engaged with the platform. Featuring content rather than showing it ordered by some simple criterion like time should be treated as editorializing rather than moderation. If a human editor decides to feature lies I tweet about you on their "best tweets of the week" page, you may be able to sue them for libel. If twitter's algorithm shows lies I tweet about you to a large audience, you currently can't.
  - michaelmrose 6y ago
    Arguing that the recommendation algorithm is editorializing is an argument for the choice of algorithm being an instance of free speech which would be protected from such meddling. I don't think current law and understanding of same allows any major changes to how we treat platforms. I tend to think that any major changes in the law are liable to be for the worse because even well meaning law makers seem to possess a mostly incompetent perspective on tech.
    - Zak 6y ago
      The algorithm would have free speech protections under such a scheme, and it's likely courts in the US would conclude that it does under current law. Those do not necessarily extend to repeating lies that I have published about you, which are not protected as free speech.
      - michaelmrose 6y ago
        The company has a free speech interest in choosing the algorithm to make it clear. Lies might be protected speech but 230 makes it very clear whom you are allowed to sue regarding those lies. Wishing the law was different doesn't change the law.
- afiori 6y ago
  What twitter is accused of is of applying its rules unfairly and with bias. Section 230 protect the right to moderate within bounds.
  - curryst 6y ago
    To use the actual text, it indemnifies them from lawsuits arising from: > any action voluntarily taken in good faith to restrict access to or availability of material that the provider or user considers to be obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, excessively violent, harassing, or otherwise objectionable, whether or not such material is constitutionally protected; So long as their actions are in good faith, and the content can be lumped into "otherwise objectionable" (as I'm sure most anything could), they are well within Section 230 protection. Even if they have an implicit bias in their moderation. Even if they have an explicit bias in their moderation that they put in their ToS. It specifically says "that the provider or user considers obscene...", which explicitly states the bias of the provider is considered. The only way Twitters moderation could remove their Section 230 protections is if they did it in bad faith. If they were doing it specifically to try to lose Trump the election, that might count as bad faith because it has nothing to do with limiting access. They are, however, free to remove everything he posts because they find him to be objectionable. Or to remove things they think they are objectionable. Or to only remove violations of their ToS when Trump does it, because they find him or his past patterns objectionable. Or because they find it more likely to lead to flamewars, etc on the site when he does it. Etc, etc, it's mostly a hypothetical because you have to prove bad faith, which is hard unless someone is dumb enough to write it in an email.
    - afiori 6y ago
      The following is my uninformed opinion, you can probably skip it; I recommend https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1OhE4w0TAU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1OhE4w0TAU for a competent commentary. Anyway: Twitter violating its own ToS and/or promises to the users sounds like an example of bad faith. (This would not apply if Twitter's marketing was 'Fuck you! we do whatever we want', instead they promote themselves as a fair platform) Moreover the entire exemption does not apply when the `provider` is not a provider but is actually a publisher using editorial discretion. (for example if twitter decided to ban false statements in tweets this would clearly put them outside of section 230 immunity)

DominoTree 6y ago

It's DEFINITELY not about the second amendment.

bigbubba 6y ago
I don't know, maybe content recommendations systems could be considered weapons...

michaelmrose 6y ago

They were NEVER a public platform they were always a private company. Its a commonly repeated untruth that as soon as they start moderating they cease to be protected. Nothing could be further from the truth 230 specifically protects their right to moderate.

Zak 6y ago
People advocating that position usually have a very specific idea about how they want sites to be moderated, but section 230 is about not treating platforms as if they're the speaker when one of their users posts illegal speech, regardless of moderation. Of course, politically biased speech is not illegal, so it's really about punishing platforms for moderation somebody doesn't like. A more reasonable target for a 230 carve-out would be recommendation algorithms. Those aren't merely passively hosting user-generated content, but actively selecting what they think you should see to keep you engaged with the platform. Featuring content rather than showing it ordered by some simple criterion like time should be treated as editorializing rather than moderation. If a human editor decides to feature lies I tweet about you on their "best tweets of the week" page, you may be able to sue them for libel. If twitter's algorithm shows lies I tweet about you to a large audience, you currently can't.
- michaelmrose 6y ago
  Arguing that the recommendation algorithm is editorializing is an argument for the choice of algorithm being an instance of free speech which would be protected from such meddling. I don't think current law and understanding of same allows any major changes to how we treat platforms. I tend to think that any major changes in the law are liable to be for the worse because even well meaning law makers seem to possess a mostly incompetent perspective on tech.
  - Zak 6y ago
    The algorithm would have free speech protections under such a scheme, and it's likely courts in the US would conclude that it does under current law. Those do not necessarily extend to repeating lies that I have published about you, which are not protected as free speech.
    - michaelmrose 6y ago
      The company has a free speech interest in choosing the algorithm to make it clear. Lies might be protected speech but 230 makes it very clear whom you are allowed to sue regarding those lies. Wishing the law was different doesn't change the law.
afiori 6y ago
What twitter is accused of is of applying its rules unfairly and with bias. Section 230 protect the right to moderate within bounds.
- curryst 6y ago
  To use the actual text, it indemnifies them from lawsuits arising from: > any action voluntarily taken in good faith to restrict access to or availability of material that the provider or user considers to be obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, excessively violent, harassing, or otherwise objectionable, whether or not such material is constitutionally protected; So long as their actions are in good faith, and the content can be lumped into "otherwise objectionable" (as I'm sure most anything could), they are well within Section 230 protection. Even if they have an implicit bias in their moderation. Even if they have an explicit bias in their moderation that they put in their ToS. It specifically says "that the provider or user considers obscene...", which explicitly states the bias of the provider is considered. The only way Twitters moderation could remove their Section 230 protections is if they did it in bad faith. If they were doing it specifically to try to lose Trump the election, that might count as bad faith because it has nothing to do with limiting access. They are, however, free to remove everything he posts because they find him to be objectionable. Or to remove things they think they are objectionable. Or to only remove violations of their ToS when Trump does it, because they find him or his past patterns objectionable. Or because they find it more likely to lead to flamewars, etc on the site when he does it. Etc, etc, it's mostly a hypothetical because you have to prove bad faith, which is hard unless someone is dumb enough to write it in an email.
  - afiori 6y ago
    The following is my uninformed opinion, you can probably skip it; I recommend https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1OhE4w0TAU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1OhE4w0TAU for a competent commentary. Anyway: Twitter violating its own ToS and/or promises to the users sounds like an example of bad faith. (This would not apply if Twitter's marketing was 'Fuck you! we do whatever we want', instead they promote themselves as a fair platform) Moreover the entire exemption does not apply when the `provider` is not a provider but is actually a publisher using editorial discretion. (for example if twitter decided to ban false statements in tweets this would clearly put them outside of section 230 immunity)