5 ms·

When the vast majority of people agree that we should do something reasonable for the common good and you disagree loudly while flailing your arms about, then i

When the vast majority of people agree that we should do something reasonable for the common good and you disagree loudly while flailing your arms about, then it doesn't make you a defender of liberty, it makes you an obnoxious moron.

treeman79 6y ago
This attitude is now genocide starts. Majority thinks it’s fine. Minority is brushed aside, dismissed, put down, re-educated, then made to go away.
- starfallg 6y ago
  Note the words "reasonable", here meaning "proportionate". We're not advocating mob rule here. We're asking you to wear a mask, not to kill your first-born.
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    COVID restrictions are way more than just masks though. In many jurisdictions, we’re requiring small businesses to remain shuttered while their competitors are allowed to remain open. A small toy shop is closed. Meanwhile, Target and Walmart are allowed to sell toys in-person (and Amazon online). What’s going to happen to that toy-shop owner 6 months from now after everyone has been trained to shop at their competitors, after they’ve missed a Christmas season, and after they’ve got 6 months of back rent due? The shadow of COVID restrictions don’t end the first day the government graciously allows them to open their doors. Many of the “solutions” (send a little money and let them delay rent payments) are answers maybe more fit for W-2 employees but not for business owners.
    - starfallg 6y ago
      Yes, I agree. Not all restrictions are agreed upon, and for those issues that are not easy to balance, great care has to be taken. This is exactly the situation Manchester is in right now. The UK government has put it into a higher level of lockdown this week, but without the same type of financial support from the previous lockdown. The local government has been fighting this tooth-and-nail, with good reason. I'm talking about the "my rights" crowd and generally these issues don't overlap with those.
  - treeman79 6y ago
    I was in the middle of treatments when lock downs started. Then I lost Access to all my doctors. Thankfully things worked out eventually, but had some bad scares. So yea, Lockdowns put me personally at risk. And since I have young daughters that puts them at risk for being homeless.
    - nickthemagicman 6y ago
      No one cares about your suffering and your daughters AS LONG AS GRANNY IS SAFE!!!
  - cwhiz 6y ago
    Just wear a mask, eh? Tell that to the entire cinema industry. Tell that to the 89% of the hospitality industry in NYC that can’t pay rent. Mask mandates are actually the least authoritarian and least enforced thing the US has done. We’re limiting actual constitutional rights, selectively, to stop the spread of covid. Despite the fact that we effectively flattened the curve months ago.
nickthemagicman 6y ago
There's 3 billion people in this world that believe there's an invisible man in the sky that grants you wishes if you pray hard enough. I want science and data to backup policy decisions and not policy based on the "vast majority" of fear driven mental idiots believing something. That's how you get crusades and genocides. In this 'demon haunted' world science is indeed a candle in the dark.
- starfallg 6y ago
  It funny you mentioned this because the "science and data" overwhelmingly supports wearing a mask to cut transmission, which is also a major factor in why a overwhelming majority of people support wearing one. https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/36/eabd3083 https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/36/eabd3083 https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-07-08-oxford-covid-19-study-face-masks-and-coverings-work-act-now https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-07-08-oxford-covid-19-study-f... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7191274/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7191274/ https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-abou... https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-0948_article https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-0948_article https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8#ref-CR4 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8#ref-CR4 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2768532 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2768532 https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0203/v3 https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0203/v3 Who would have guessed that most people are reasonable and take heed of doctors and scientists? Why have democracy at all if you don't believe our collective ability to make good choices most of the time?
  - nickthemagicman 6y ago
    Very telling that literally all of the links you posted are either opinion pieces or editorial articles, and not a single article is an actual scientific publication. I think you're getting 'overwhelming support' by the media confused with overwhelming support by actual scientific data. The last article literally has a giant red warning at the top "This version is not peer-reviewed" or the second and third to last articles have a giant red "Editorial" warning at the top. Or the fourth to last article that is called an "Online Report". A blog could be considered an "Online report". LOL I was literally laughing as I went through these. Do you seriously think this is what actual scientific publications are? Is this view of what a scientific article is widespread? This explains a lot to me about why America is being crushed from the inside out by ignorance.
dang 6y ago
Please don't take HN threads into flamewar. What a wretched subthread this spawned. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

treeman79 6y ago

This attitude is now genocide starts. Majority thinks it’s fine. Minority is brushed aside, dismissed, put down, re-educated, then made to go away.

starfallg 6y ago
Note the words "reasonable", here meaning "proportionate". We're not advocating mob rule here. We're asking you to wear a mask, not to kill your first-born.
- sokoloff 6y ago
  COVID restrictions are way more than just masks though. In many jurisdictions, we’re requiring small businesses to remain shuttered while their competitors are allowed to remain open. A small toy shop is closed. Meanwhile, Target and Walmart are allowed to sell toys in-person (and Amazon online). What’s going to happen to that toy-shop owner 6 months from now after everyone has been trained to shop at their competitors, after they’ve missed a Christmas season, and after they’ve got 6 months of back rent due? The shadow of COVID restrictions don’t end the first day the government graciously allows them to open their doors. Many of the “solutions” (send a little money and let them delay rent payments) are answers maybe more fit for W-2 employees but not for business owners.
  - starfallg 6y ago
    Yes, I agree. Not all restrictions are agreed upon, and for those issues that are not easy to balance, great care has to be taken. This is exactly the situation Manchester is in right now. The UK government has put it into a higher level of lockdown this week, but without the same type of financial support from the previous lockdown. The local government has been fighting this tooth-and-nail, with good reason. I'm talking about the "my rights" crowd and generally these issues don't overlap with those.
- treeman79 6y ago
  I was in the middle of treatments when lock downs started. Then I lost Access to all my doctors. Thankfully things worked out eventually, but had some bad scares. So yea, Lockdowns put me personally at risk. And since I have young daughters that puts them at risk for being homeless.
  - nickthemagicman 6y ago
    No one cares about your suffering and your daughters AS LONG AS GRANNY IS SAFE!!!
- cwhiz 6y ago
  Just wear a mask, eh? Tell that to the entire cinema industry. Tell that to the 89% of the hospitality industry in NYC that can’t pay rent. Mask mandates are actually the least authoritarian and least enforced thing the US has done. We’re limiting actual constitutional rights, selectively, to stop the spread of covid. Despite the fact that we effectively flattened the curve months ago.

nickthemagicman 6y ago

There's 3 billion people in this world that believe there's an invisible man in the sky that grants you wishes if you pray hard enough. I want science and data to backup policy decisions and not policy based on the "vast majority" of fear driven mental idiots believing something. That's how you get crusades and genocides. In this 'demon haunted' world science is indeed a candle in the dark.

starfallg 6y ago
It funny you mentioned this because the "science and data" overwhelmingly supports wearing a mask to cut transmission, which is also a major factor in why a overwhelming majority of people support wearing one. https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/36/eabd3083 https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/36/eabd3083 https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-07-08-oxford-covid-19-study-face-masks-and-coverings-work-act-now https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-07-08-oxford-covid-19-study-f... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7191274/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7191274/ https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-abou... https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-0948_article https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-0948_article https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8#ref-CR4 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8#ref-CR4 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2768532 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2768532 https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0203/v3 https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0203/v3 Who would have guessed that most people are reasonable and take heed of doctors and scientists? Why have democracy at all if you don't believe our collective ability to make good choices most of the time?
- nickthemagicman 6y ago
  Very telling that literally all of the links you posted are either opinion pieces or editorial articles, and not a single article is an actual scientific publication. I think you're getting 'overwhelming support' by the media confused with overwhelming support by actual scientific data. The last article literally has a giant red warning at the top "This version is not peer-reviewed" or the second and third to last articles have a giant red "Editorial" warning at the top. Or the fourth to last article that is called an "Online Report". A blog could be considered an "Online report". LOL I was literally laughing as I went through these. Do you seriously think this is what actual scientific publications are? Is this view of what a scientific article is widespread? This explains a lot to me about why America is being crushed from the inside out by ignorance.

dang 6y ago

Please don't take HN threads into flamewar. What a wretched subthread this spawned. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html