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Can we have a break from the thought-terminating cliches that abound on HN? Just like Pavlov's dogs: mention the word or phrase and the subject salivates. To su

Can we have a break from the thought-terminating cliches that abound on HN? Just like Pavlov's dogs: mention the word or phrase and the subject salivates. To suggest that medical expertise as such has a decided opinion on the covid crisis is merely to show that you haven't read the literature but have taken the line that more closely aligns with your political agenda. Reality is rather more complex as indicated by https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deat... giving deaths per capita.

romanoderoma 6y ago
That doesn't disprove that Trump, Bolsonaro, Johnson and Erdoğan are far right populist who fucked up. On the contrary, it proves that US handled the crisis badly, worse than many other countries less developed and less rich. Of course Belgium, with 11 million citizens (less than NY) and a population density of 385/km2 (USA is at 36) and headquarter of European political institutions had it worse NY city death rate is in fact 1,960 deaths/million (2 times Belgium) NY state is at 1,710/million New Jersey 1,820/million It's easy to win the stats game when you do not watch them closely Of course you can scoff the numbers when you don't know that Belgium is counting any death happening in nursing homes (there are over 15 hundreds of them) as covid related, even the untested ones. If you wanna talk about complexity, you should at least show that you can handle it.
- inops 6y ago
  Why are you equating the response of the UK to Brazil or the USA? The UK locked down for months on end, and continues to lockdown areas depending on infection rates. To me, a Briton, the description of Johnson as "far right" is bizarre -- he's about as "far right" as Harold Macmillan.
  - notreallytrue 6y ago
    Because he is in the same ballpark of the other 3, denial of the covid dangers, a strong sentiment of economy over people lives and the call to sacrifice Isn Boris Johnson who said “I must level with you, I must level with the British public, Many more families are going to lose loved ones before their time.” just to keep the business going? I'm sorry but UK had it very bad under Johnson, it's an undeniable fact.
    - inops 6y ago
      I've not heard "denial", a la Trump, from Johnson. That's the trade off every country is making: dangers of the virus Vs long term effects of response to the virus. It's a balancing act. What would you prefer, wanton destruction of everyone's livelihoods in overreaction? Not everyone is lucky enough to have a job that can be done from home, such as us on this site (typically). Every country is trying to avoid shuttering everything. The quote from Johnson isn't talking about what you're inferring. It was a broad statement of what was going to happen (and it has, across the world): people will still die, in spite of the lockdown. It was a public address, not a policy statement. It isn't purely the economics: I've had friends and relatives that have had significant effects to their health (including a death) because of being locked in their houses for months.
      - romanoderoma 6y ago
        > I've not heard "denial", a la Trump, from Johnson. He literally said it himself when he recovered from COVID-19 > A few hours later, he received a positive test result, and the next day he made a video statement in which he said he was self-isolating, but would continue to work and lead Britain’s coronavirus response. > But during the next nine days, as he worked in isolation in an apartment above his official Downing Street residence and office, his condition deteriorated, with persistent symptoms including a high temperature. > Later, he said he had been in denial and continued to work despite feeling groggy and “pretty rough”, until doctors told him firmly to go to hospital. Boris Johnson was forced to change attitude, but he didn't believe covid-19 was a life threatening disease. > The quote from Johnson isn't talking about what you're inferring. It was a broad statement of what was going to happen If he hadn't been in denial he could have acted sooner and save a lot of those people that instead died. It's the PM responsibility and anybody else. If we were talking about Italy, for example, I would tell you that 60% of the covid related deaths are a responsibility of Attilio Fontana, the president of Regional Council of Lombardy who left elderly to die in nursing homes while he was subcontracting the supply of medical equipment to his brother in law and when journalists found out he tried to repay the debt using his own money from a Swiss account (yes, he has secret money in Switzerland) But in UK B.J. is the major responsible for the debacle.

romanoderoma 6y ago

That doesn't disprove that Trump, Bolsonaro, Johnson and Erdoğan are far right populist who fucked up. On the contrary, it proves that US handled the crisis badly, worse than many other countries less developed and less rich. Of course Belgium, with 11 million citizens (less than NY) and a population density of 385/km2 (USA is at 36) and headquarter of European political institutions had it worse NY city death rate is in fact 1,960 deaths/million (2 times Belgium) NY state is at 1,710/million New Jersey 1,820/million It's easy to win the stats game when you do not watch them closely Of course you can scoff the numbers when you don't know that Belgium is counting any death happening in nursing homes (there are over 15 hundreds of them) as covid related, even the untested ones. If you wanna talk about complexity, you should at least show that you can handle it.

inops 6y ago
Why are you equating the response of the UK to Brazil or the USA? The UK locked down for months on end, and continues to lockdown areas depending on infection rates. To me, a Briton, the description of Johnson as "far right" is bizarre -- he's about as "far right" as Harold Macmillan.
- notreallytrue 6y ago
  Because he is in the same ballpark of the other 3, denial of the covid dangers, a strong sentiment of economy over people lives and the call to sacrifice Isn Boris Johnson who said “I must level with you, I must level with the British public, Many more families are going to lose loved ones before their time.” just to keep the business going? I'm sorry but UK had it very bad under Johnson, it's an undeniable fact.
  - inops 6y ago
    I've not heard "denial", a la Trump, from Johnson. That's the trade off every country is making: dangers of the virus Vs long term effects of response to the virus. It's a balancing act. What would you prefer, wanton destruction of everyone's livelihoods in overreaction? Not everyone is lucky enough to have a job that can be done from home, such as us on this site (typically). Every country is trying to avoid shuttering everything. The quote from Johnson isn't talking about what you're inferring. It was a broad statement of what was going to happen (and it has, across the world): people will still die, in spite of the lockdown. It was a public address, not a policy statement. It isn't purely the economics: I've had friends and relatives that have had significant effects to their health (including a death) because of being locked in their houses for months.
    - romanoderoma 6y ago
      > I've not heard "denial", a la Trump, from Johnson. He literally said it himself when he recovered from COVID-19 > A few hours later, he received a positive test result, and the next day he made a video statement in which he said he was self-isolating, but would continue to work and lead Britain’s coronavirus response. > But during the next nine days, as he worked in isolation in an apartment above his official Downing Street residence and office, his condition deteriorated, with persistent symptoms including a high temperature. > Later, he said he had been in denial and continued to work despite feeling groggy and “pretty rough”, until doctors told him firmly to go to hospital. Boris Johnson was forced to change attitude, but he didn't believe covid-19 was a life threatening disease. > The quote from Johnson isn't talking about what you're inferring. It was a broad statement of what was going to happen If he hadn't been in denial he could have acted sooner and save a lot of those people that instead died. It's the PM responsibility and anybody else. If we were talking about Italy, for example, I would tell you that 60% of the covid related deaths are a responsibility of Attilio Fontana, the president of Regional Council of Lombardy who left elderly to die in nursing homes while he was subcontracting the supply of medical equipment to his brother in law and when journalists found out he tried to repay the debt using his own money from a Swiss account (yes, he has secret money in Switzerland) But in UK B.J. is the major responsible for the debacle.