9 ms·

Seems like USA and UK fucking it up. Who else?

by scotth 6y ago

mschuster91 6y ago
Brazil and Turkey come to my mind.
- pelasaco 6y ago
  why Brazil? The Democracy there works fine. There was a change in the power, which brought new dynamics to the Country, but IMO their democracy are eroding much less than in US, France and Germany Disclaimer: I'm German/Brazilian who lived 10 years in US.
  - romanoderoma 6y ago
    That must be a joke. Bolsonaro endorsed the protests of a far right movement that literally wants to "return to military rule under Bolsonaro"
    - pelasaco 6y ago
      > Bolsonaro endorsed the protests of a far right movement that literally > wants to "return to military rule under Bolsonaro Please, add reference for that. The democracy is working as usual in Brazil, nothing changed. No rights was taken away from the people and no riots or civil conflicts are worse than before. Look America, France and Germany where the social fabric is partially destroyed.
      - notreallytrue 6y ago
        So you don't know about his endorsement for #SomosTodosBolsonaro and the "fuck you day" and that "in an April rally also attended by Bolsonaro, demonstrators called on Sunday for the closing of the Supreme Court and Congress, and a return to authoritarian measures used during Brazil’s 1964-1985 military government"? You don't know that he "ordered the country’s armed forces to commemorate the anniversary of the 1964 coup which brought the military to power."? You don't know about his interference with justice and when Moro presented testimony about it Bolsonaro tweeted that he was "a traitor, a Juda"? You don't know that "As Bolsonaro’s relationship with legislators and the courts has cooled, he has become increasingly dependent on a cadre of advisers in his government who are active or former military"? You don't know that in a Facebook live he said “We have the armed forces at the people’s side: the side of order, democracy, liberty,”? You really don't know any of this? Tell me. if you can, when in France or Germany the President attended a far right rally where they hoped to return to the nazi period...
        pelasaco 6y ago
        As german I can tell you, you cannot compare the center-right in Brazil with Nazi Period, there is no way to continue a discussion with someone with this arguments, sorry. Edit: specially with a socket puppet: user: notreallytrue created: 8 minutes ago
        notreallytrue 6y ago
        > you cannot compare right in Brazil with Nazi Period Is it true or not that Bolsonaro is against democracy and rallied against it or not? Can you find a moment when French or German president said something like "the military must be back in power"? The last time it happened in Europe was when nazi ruled, or when in Spain the fascist ruled, or when in Greece the fascists ruled etc. etc. I think the comparison is apt. > user: notreallytrue created: 8 minutes ago I know for a fact what happens to you when you go against far right movements, especially south american ones. Better safe than sorry.
        koolba 6y ago
        It’s the opposite. He’s literally arming the population to prevent a future totalitarian takeover: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/world/americas/guns-brazil-bolsonaro.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/world/americas/guns-brazi... Dictators don’t encourage their people to be able to defend themselves.
        pelasaco 6y ago
        That's a good point. IMO he is center-right with some influence of liberalism and populist as typical politician in South America. However his govern still open, respecting the diversity, supporting the refugees from Venezuela and respecting the sovereignty of Neighbouring countries.
        ufo 6y ago
        That's just "2nd ammendment" propaganda that he borrowed from the United States. It's patently clear that he'd go for a totalitarian takeover himself if he could. He just hasn't yet because he did not have the means to do so. https://piaui.folha.uol.com.br/materia/vou-intervir/ https://piaui.folha.uol.com.br/materia/vou-intervir/
      - SayItStraight 6y ago
        Tiraflechas, are you serious?
    - eznzt 6y ago
      I thought protests were democratic and A Good Thing™?
      - notreallytrue 6y ago
        Not when is Fascists Against Democracy™
      - pelasaco 6y ago
        Everyone which I don't agree are Fascists (TM)?
      - jlokier 6y ago
        Assuming yes, are protests against democracy democratic? See also Paradox of Tolerance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
        eznzt 6y ago
        Yes, they are. If people don't want democracy then they should not have it.
        romanoderoma 6y ago
        That's not democracy, that's dictatorship of the majority https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/dictatorship_of_the_majority https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/dictatorship_of_the_majorit... https://edsitement.neh.gov/curricula/alexis-de-tocqueville-tyranny-majority https://edsitement.neh.gov/curricula/alexis-de-tocqueville-t...
        eznzt 6y ago
        That's what democracy is. The current "tyranny of the minority" that we live in is an anomaly (and quite undemocratic)
        romanoderoma 6y ago

Seems like USA and UK fucking it up. Who else?

by scotth 6y ago

Seems like USA and UK fucking it up. Who else?

mschuster91 6y ago

Brazil and Turkey come to my mind.

pelasaco 6y ago
why Brazil? The Democracy there works fine. There was a change in the power, which brought new dynamics to the Country, but IMO their democracy are eroding much less than in US, France and Germany Disclaimer: I'm German/Brazilian who lived 10 years in US.
- romanoderoma 6y ago
  That must be a joke. Bolsonaro endorsed the protests of a far right movement that literally wants to "return to military rule under Bolsonaro"
  - pelasaco 6y ago
    > Bolsonaro endorsed the protests of a far right movement that literally > wants to "return to military rule under Bolsonaro Please, add reference for that. The democracy is working as usual in Brazil, nothing changed. No rights was taken away from the people and no riots or civil conflicts are worse than before. Look America, France and Germany where the social fabric is partially destroyed.
    - notreallytrue 6y ago
      So you don't know about his endorsement for #SomosTodosBolsonaro and the "fuck you day" and that "in an April rally also attended by Bolsonaro, demonstrators called on Sunday for the closing of the Supreme Court and Congress, and a return to authoritarian measures used during Brazil’s 1964-1985 military government"? You don't know that he "ordered the country’s armed forces to commemorate the anniversary of the 1964 coup which brought the military to power."? You don't know about his interference with justice and when Moro presented testimony about it Bolsonaro tweeted that he was "a traitor, a Juda"? You don't know that "As Bolsonaro’s relationship with legislators and the courts has cooled, he has become increasingly dependent on a cadre of advisers in his government who are active or former military"? You don't know that in a Facebook live he said “We have the armed forces at the people’s side: the side of order, democracy, liberty,”? You really don't know any of this? Tell me. if you can, when in France or Germany the President attended a far right rally where they hoped to return to the nazi period...
      - pelasaco 6y ago
        As german I can tell you, you cannot compare the center-right in Brazil with Nazi Period, there is no way to continue a discussion with someone with this arguments, sorry. Edit: specially with a socket puppet: user: notreallytrue created: 8 minutes ago
        notreallytrue 6y ago
        > you cannot compare right in Brazil with Nazi Period Is it true or not that Bolsonaro is against democracy and rallied against it or not? Can you find a moment when French or German president said something like "the military must be back in power"? The last time it happened in Europe was when nazi ruled, or when in Spain the fascist ruled, or when in Greece the fascists ruled etc. etc. I think the comparison is apt. > user: notreallytrue created: 8 minutes ago I know for a fact what happens to you when you go against far right movements, especially south american ones. Better safe than sorry.
        koolba 6y ago
        It’s the opposite. He’s literally arming the population to prevent a future totalitarian takeover: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/world/americas/guns-brazil-bolsonaro.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/world/americas/guns-brazi... Dictators don’t encourage their people to be able to defend themselves.
        pelasaco 6y ago
        That's a good point. IMO he is center-right with some influence of liberalism and populist as typical politician in South America. However his govern still open, respecting the diversity, supporting the refugees from Venezuela and respecting the sovereignty of Neighbouring countries.
        ufo 6y ago
        That's just "2nd ammendment" propaganda that he borrowed from the United States. It's patently clear that he'd go for a totalitarian takeover himself if he could. He just hasn't yet because he did not have the means to do so. https://piaui.folha.uol.com.br/materia/vou-intervir/ https://piaui.folha.uol.com.br/materia/vou-intervir/
    - SayItStraight 6y ago
      Tiraflechas, are you serious?
  - eznzt 6y ago
    I thought protests were democratic and A Good Thing™?
    - notreallytrue 6y ago
      Not when is Fascists Against Democracy™
    - pelasaco 6y ago
      Everyone which I don't agree are Fascists (TM)?
    - jlokier 6y ago
      Assuming yes, are protests against democracy democratic? See also Paradox of Tolerance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
      - eznzt 6y ago
        Yes, they are. If people don't want democracy then they should not have it.
        romanoderoma 6y ago
        That's not democracy, that's dictatorship of the majority https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/dictatorship_of_the_majority https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/dictatorship_of_the_majorit... https://edsitement.neh.gov/curricula/alexis-de-tocqueville-tyranny-majority https://edsitement.neh.gov/curricula/alexis-de-tocqueville-t...
        eznzt 6y ago
        That's what democracy is. The current "tyranny of the minority" that we live in is an anomaly (and quite undemocratic)
        romanoderoma 6y ago