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Do you think building solar farms causes existing gas plants to collapse or something? No, that capacity is still there and you can run it when the sun doesn’t

Do you think building solar farms causes existing gas plants to collapse or something? No, that capacity is still there and you can run it when the sun doesn’t shine. It still saves you money, because the fuel costs more than the solar power. It also reduces CO2 emissions in the period the sun shines. I guess your counter argument is “but it doesn’t remove ALL the CO2!!” But why should it? That is a long term goal. First we remove all CO2 emitted when the sun shines. We still got plenty of work to do there. Only when that has been done all do we need to think about storage. By that time storage solutions will be cheap.

konjin 6y ago
>Do you think building solar farms causes existing gas plants to collapse or something? Yes it literally does. My employer has shuttered three out of their fleet of nine gas power stations because they are no longer peak competitive with batteries. And base load designs aren't competitive with solar since they are more expensive and will only be turned on during extreme events, like a snow storm, or an extremely hot night. Sucks to be us when we need electricity during an extreme event though.
- ben_w 6y ago
  > My employer has shuttered three out of their fleet of nine gas power stations because they are no longer peak competitive with batteries > Storage methods need tens of trillions of investment to reach that capacity and power prices would have to increase 10 to 100 fold to cover those investments. This sounds like you’re claiming your employer made electricity 10 to 100 times more expensive.
  - konjin 6y ago
    It's like saying that ice is cheap in the winter then complaining when the refrigeration companies have gone out of business by the summer. Yes, producing electricity when it's needed is more expensive to producing it when it's easy.
    - ben_w 6y ago
      If your argument is that seasonal needs are different from diurnal needs, and that gas can supply both but only if it gets to subsidise one with the other, then you should say so explicitly, because even now that’s merely my best guess as to what you’re trying to argue. I’d still disagree (PV in the right places can be so cheap that it can already make sense to get through winter by putting down x3 as many panels as you need for summer), but it would be clearer.
- HeadsUpHigh 6y ago
  So your employer is being pushed out of the market by a better, cheaper alternative? On your last comment you claimed that x10-100 price is needed to pay for battery deployment, and here you are saying batteries are already beating you in price... Make up your mind.
  - pfdietz 6y ago
    He's probably thinking of the cost of batteries needed for seasonal storage, but it's hard to tell. Using batteries that way would be foolish, of course.

konjin 6y ago

>Do you think building solar farms causes existing gas plants to collapse or something? Yes it literally does. My employer has shuttered three out of their fleet of nine gas power stations because they are no longer peak competitive with batteries. And base load designs aren't competitive with solar since they are more expensive and will only be turned on during extreme events, like a snow storm, or an extremely hot night. Sucks to be us when we need electricity during an extreme event though.

ben_w 6y ago
> My employer has shuttered three out of their fleet of nine gas power stations because they are no longer peak competitive with batteries > Storage methods need tens of trillions of investment to reach that capacity and power prices would have to increase 10 to 100 fold to cover those investments. This sounds like you’re claiming your employer made electricity 10 to 100 times more expensive.
- konjin 6y ago
  It's like saying that ice is cheap in the winter then complaining when the refrigeration companies have gone out of business by the summer. Yes, producing electricity when it's needed is more expensive to producing it when it's easy.
  - ben_w 6y ago
    If your argument is that seasonal needs are different from diurnal needs, and that gas can supply both but only if it gets to subsidise one with the other, then you should say so explicitly, because even now that’s merely my best guess as to what you’re trying to argue. I’d still disagree (PV in the right places can be so cheap that it can already make sense to get through winter by putting down x3 as many panels as you need for summer), but it would be clearer.
HeadsUpHigh 6y ago
So your employer is being pushed out of the market by a better, cheaper alternative? On your last comment you claimed that x10-100 price is needed to pay for battery deployment, and here you are saying batteries are already beating you in price... Make up your mind.
- pfdietz 6y ago
  He's probably thinking of the cost of batteries needed for seasonal storage, but it's hard to tell. Using batteries that way would be foolish, of course.