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Mercedes only has EQC which isn't even being sold in the USA and BMW has no good EVs (i3 is a niche product). I don't know about USA but i think that in Europe

Mercedes only has EQC which isn't even being sold in the USA and BMW has no good EVs (i3 is a niche product). I don't know about USA but i think that in Europe Tesla biggest competitors are actually "lower" tier manufacturers like Hyundai, KIA, Renault, Nissan, VW and the only premium competitor is Audi.

foepys 6y ago
You missed Porsche's Taycan. The already in production VW ID.4 is a direct competitor to the new Model Y, the ID.3 to the Model 3.
- sjwright 6y ago
  The VW ID3/4 are not remotely competitors, other than being compact electric cars. Very different size, performance and materials quality.
  - akmarinov 6y ago
    Sizes are comparable to M3 and MY. Performance and range favor Tesla. Build quality favors VW.
    - sjwright 6y ago
      I was responding to a person who said they were direct competitors. I agree that they're competitors in certain respects, insofar as they're both electric vehicles and both have their price spread constrained by the cost of batteries. But they don't directly compete with the same audience. A more reasonable direct competitor to the ID.3 is the Renault Zoe or Peugeot e-208. A more reasonable direct competitor to the Model 3 is the Polestar 2. The Model 3 and ID.3 are a full size class apart and have wildly different driving character. In BMW parlance it's M340i vs 120i. In Mercedes parlance it's C43 vs A200. It is too early to assess the relative build quality of the ID.3, though obviously VW do have strong form here and Tesla have weak form. But from a construction standpoint it's worth noting that the ID.3 is cheaply made, well below the standard of even the VW Golf. Despite the price tag, it's an economy car through and through.
      - ohmaigad 6y ago
        It makes no sense to say that ID.3 is a more reasonable competitor to Zoe or e-208 when the wheelbase difference to those cars is bigger than to Model 3 (+~18cm to Zoe, +~22cm to e-208, -~11cm to Model 3). Unfortunately there seems to be no info about passenger volume because then we could actually compare it to lets say EPA size rating etc. Even going by regular car terms the 208 competitor is VW Polo while ID.3 is bigger than Golf...
        sjwright 6y ago
        You're comparing size only. There are far more aspects of a car's design which determine practicality and market perception. Current market prices aside, the ID.3 is designed to be perceived as a cheaper car by dint of being a hatchback with lots of hard interior plastics. To be clear, I'm not criticising the ID.3, my next car is probably going to look more like the ID.3 than the Model 3. But nonetheless there's a market that's excited by the Tesla's blistering performance and driving dynamics, while there's another market which is more excited by the ID.3's practical and conservative construction.
BozeWolf 6y ago
The Jaguar ipace is competition to the model S. I see them a lot in NL.
- jacquesm 6y ago
  You see them a lot. I've talked to some owners: very bad charging setup. This is a complete own goal by Jaguar, they could have easily fixed that, and I suspect they will fix it at some point because it really takes the shine of what would have been a pretty nice car otherwise.
  - apexalpha 6y ago
    What's bad about charging the car exactly?
clouddrover 6y ago
Volkswagen and Renault-Nissan EVs outsell Tesla in Europe. Hyundai is also close to outselling Tesla in Europe.
- xedeon 6y ago
  All of that is false. Do you have an annual chart to back your claim? https://carsalesbase.com/european-sales-2019-ev-phev/ https://carsalesbase.com/european-sales-2019-ev-phev/ 2019 EV sales Europe 1. Tesla Model 3 - 95.168 2. Renault Zoe - 45.129 3. Nissan Leaf - 31.792 4. Hyundai Kona EV - 21.790 5. Audi e-tron - 18.382 Another chart as a data point... https://www.ev-volumes.com/ https://www.ev-volumes.com/
  - clouddrover 6y ago
    It's 2020 now. European sales for 2020: https://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2020/09/europe-august-2020.html https://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2020/09/europe-august-2020.htm... And let's look at some individual countries. France: https://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2020/10/france-september-2020.html https://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2020/10/france-september-2020.... Germany: https://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2020/10/germany-september-2020.html https://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2020/10/germany-september-2020... Norway: https://elbilstatistikk.no/ https://elbilstatistikk.no/
    - xedeon 6y ago
      Those are monthly metrics. Everyone knows that Tesla has to ship their cars by sea and there is a delay on the numbers, followed by a surge when the Glovis ships arrive and unload. VW, Peugeot, Renault, Nissan and even Hyundai all have European plants. This has been an ongoing cycle since they started selling in Europe. That is why I asked for annual charts. Maybe even quarterly charts would be more accurate.
      - clouddrover 6y ago
        > Those are monthly metrics. I suggest you carefully re-read what I linked to.

foepys 6y ago

You missed Porsche's Taycan. The already in production VW ID.4 is a direct competitor to the new Model Y, the ID.3 to the Model 3.

sjwright 6y ago
The VW ID3/4 are not remotely competitors, other than being compact electric cars. Very different size, performance and materials quality.
- akmarinov 6y ago
  Sizes are comparable to M3 and MY. Performance and range favor Tesla. Build quality favors VW.
  - sjwright 6y ago
    I was responding to a person who said they were direct competitors. I agree that they're competitors in certain respects, insofar as they're both electric vehicles and both have their price spread constrained by the cost of batteries. But they don't directly compete with the same audience. A more reasonable direct competitor to the ID.3 is the Renault Zoe or Peugeot e-208. A more reasonable direct competitor to the Model 3 is the Polestar 2. The Model 3 and ID.3 are a full size class apart and have wildly different driving character. In BMW parlance it's M340i vs 120i. In Mercedes parlance it's C43 vs A200. It is too early to assess the relative build quality of the ID.3, though obviously VW do have strong form here and Tesla have weak form. But from a construction standpoint it's worth noting that the ID.3 is cheaply made, well below the standard of even the VW Golf. Despite the price tag, it's an economy car through and through.
    - ohmaigad 6y ago
      It makes no sense to say that ID.3 is a more reasonable competitor to Zoe or e-208 when the wheelbase difference to those cars is bigger than to Model 3 (+~18cm to Zoe, +~22cm to e-208, -~11cm to Model 3). Unfortunately there seems to be no info about passenger volume because then we could actually compare it to lets say EPA size rating etc. Even going by regular car terms the 208 competitor is VW Polo while ID.3 is bigger than Golf...
      - sjwright 6y ago
        You're comparing size only. There are far more aspects of a car's design which determine practicality and market perception. Current market prices aside, the ID.3 is designed to be perceived as a cheaper car by dint of being a hatchback with lots of hard interior plastics. To be clear, I'm not criticising the ID.3, my next car is probably going to look more like the ID.3 than the Model 3. But nonetheless there's a market that's excited by the Tesla's blistering performance and driving dynamics, while there's another market which is more excited by the ID.3's practical and conservative construction.

BozeWolf 6y ago

The Jaguar ipace is competition to the model S. I see them a lot in NL.

jacquesm 6y ago
You see them a lot. I've talked to some owners: very bad charging setup. This is a complete own goal by Jaguar, they could have easily fixed that, and I suspect they will fix it at some point because it really takes the shine of what would have been a pretty nice car otherwise.
- apexalpha 6y ago
  What's bad about charging the car exactly?

clouddrover 6y ago

Volkswagen and Renault-Nissan EVs outsell Tesla in Europe. Hyundai is also close to outselling Tesla in Europe.

xedeon 6y ago
All of that is false. Do you have an annual chart to back your claim? https://carsalesbase.com/european-sales-2019-ev-phev/ https://carsalesbase.com/european-sales-2019-ev-phev/ 2019 EV sales Europe 1. Tesla Model 3 - 95.168 2. Renault Zoe - 45.129 3. Nissan Leaf - 31.792 4. Hyundai Kona EV - 21.790 5. Audi e-tron - 18.382 Another chart as a data point... https://www.ev-volumes.com/ https://www.ev-volumes.com/
- clouddrover 6y ago
  It's 2020 now. European sales for 2020: https://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2020/09/europe-august-2020.html https://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2020/09/europe-august-2020.htm... And let's look at some individual countries. France: https://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2020/10/france-september-2020.html https://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2020/10/france-september-2020.... Germany: https://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2020/10/germany-september-2020.html https://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2020/10/germany-september-2020... Norway: https://elbilstatistikk.no/ https://elbilstatistikk.no/
  - xedeon 6y ago
    Those are monthly metrics. Everyone knows that Tesla has to ship their cars by sea and there is a delay on the numbers, followed by a surge when the Glovis ships arrive and unload. VW, Peugeot, Renault, Nissan and even Hyundai all have European plants. This has been an ongoing cycle since they started selling in Europe. That is why I asked for annual charts. Maybe even quarterly charts would be more accurate.
    - clouddrover 6y ago
      > Those are monthly metrics. I suggest you carefully re-read what I linked to.