4 ms·

Explain to me what is the danger of this things: - make public the schematics of electronics - let your users buy spare parts, don't use lawers or DRM to prev

Explain to me what is the danger of this things: - make public the schematics of electronics - let your users buy spare parts, don't use lawers or DRM to prevent using an un-official part as long is a choice I am making ( who would like that his car won't work if you replace the stereo or a light bulb with an equivalent or better one but that is not from the approved companies) - let anyone use the debugging software and ports, I should not have to travel and pay so some guy would use a proprietary tool to read and translate an error code. - let people salvage parts from broken devices and fix with them other broken devices, don't be evil and DRM stuff or destroy good parts because you want to sell new shiny things. - if you sell a device you should not have the right to brick it with an update, if you can't support it anymore you should be forced to unlock it and if is IoT thing open it up enough so people can use their own server alternative. I am sure someone will say something about batteries exploding but from my memory we had devices with batteries for a long time and we could change the batteries, we could mod the cars, we could mod the computers and no precious billion dollars companies "shiny" image had to suffer for it.

jrace 6y ago
The only danger is to the companies profit margin. Why buy new when you can just fix old? I 100% agree with your comment.
zepto 6y ago
I generally support the sentiment. However the biggest arguments I can see are around security and counterfeiting. I don’t want to worry about whether the device I’m buying has been compromised with replacement parts that leak data, or render otherwise render the device insecure.
- simion314 6y ago
  Buy a new device or buy a second hand one from the approved companies. Second hand always has a risk and the price reflects that. I know the stress my family had before deciding what second hand car to buy. But I also know the fact that they could replace a car mirror,body parts and even an engine with parts from cars in the junk yards - in the future your Apple/Tesla car will not let you start it if you replaced the windshield with one from a different car, you will need to use official replacement parts and use an official dealership that will remove the DRM locks for a big price. In this future a car with a broken engine will be scrapped instead no part will be reusable because it will be more profitable to make a new car or only fix the cars in the official dealerships.
  - zepto 6y ago
    That doesn’t solve the problem. If other people buy insecure or faulty devices, I can be harmed.
    - simion314 6y ago
      >If other people buy insecure or faulty devices, I can be harmed. How can you say that I should not repair or upgrade my phone / laptop without Apple blessing because my device could harm you WHILE at the same time I can repair my car at a third party mechanic and fucking cars have more potential to cause damage then electronics and tractors, though car manufacturers are hating this are against right to repair and pushing this FUD campaigns. As long as you have the choice to repair your phone at an official place then is not your bussiness that some guy is capable to cleanup the water from the device itself or he is competent to fix is speackers or his car and fix it itself. When I was a kid I was "fixing" digital watches by replacing broken parts from other broken watches(most of them were using compatible displays or bracelets) but in future this evil corps want to make it illegal, make proprietary scres and copy right them so I can;t open the device, put DRM in them so I can't change a display etc the result would be a lot e-waste and more money for the corporations. And who knows maybe if you see a kid that opened up an electronic device you will call the police to handle the dangerous situation.
      - zepto 6y ago
        “How can you say that I should not repair or upgrade my phone / laptop without Apple blessing because my device could harm you WHILE at the same time I can repair my car at a third party mechanic and fucking cars have more potential to cause damage then electronics and tractors” Easy: The work of third party mechanics is not remotely comparable to diy repairs. They are: 1. Are strictly licensed 2. Are strictly regulated 3. Are liable for safety problems they cause. 4. Are required to carry insurance because of #3.
zepto 6y ago
Perhaps we should add - once a device has been modified or repaired, the manufacturer is indemnified against all consequences relating to its use. See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24810868 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24810868
- simion314 6y ago
  There are laws that are forcing the manufacturer to explain why me changing the mirror on a car would void my warranty of the engine. And is fair, if I changed something in the engine and the engine got destroyed because of it they will not have to pay anything. Is it impossible that 1 guy could abuse this system , yes it is possible, should be screw everyone else because of this possibility instead of finding a way to prevent the abuse? sure we should do this instead of screwing everyone and by "coincidence" making more money for the companies that are against right to repair.
  - zepto 6y ago
    It’s really not clear what you are trying to say here.
    - simion314 6y ago
      We have already in most countries laws for warranty. My warranty is not just voided because I opened my laptop and cleared the dust and it is a good thing.
      - zepto 6y ago
        Ok, but the right to repair goes beyond just opening the laptop and clearing dust. Your warranty should be voided and the manufacturer should no longer be liable if you make unauthorized repairs.
        rasz 6y ago
        Read Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. This is why car manufacturers cant pull this type of shit https://www.mclarenlife.com/threads/psa-mclaren-is-trying-to-sweep-this-issue-under-the-rug.99781/ https://www.mclarenlife.com/threads/psa-mclaren-is-trying-to...
bluGill 6y ago
Stolen parts are the danger. Theives steal cars and strip them for parts if they can get away with it.
- simion314 6y ago
  And cars get in accidents and parts could be re-used and sold. I assume stolen parts are profitable only in the market where this parts are hard to find, like for expensive limited edition cars. Make the parts available from multiple vendors , have them cheaper and less people would risk their liberty for cheap parts. Maybe we should also solve the crime problem more directly by catching the criminals or giving them jobs and not by screwing the society with making things un-repairable (and what I coincidence this is also very profitable for the big companies and affects only the small business and citizens, but yeah coincidences happen I am sure Tesla and Apple were thinking about theft and not about money)

jrace 6y ago

The only danger is to the companies profit margin. Why buy new when you can just fix old? I 100% agree with your comment.

zepto 6y ago

I generally support the sentiment. However the biggest arguments I can see are around security and counterfeiting. I don’t want to worry about whether the device I’m buying has been compromised with replacement parts that leak data, or render otherwise render the device insecure.

simion314 6y ago
Buy a new device or buy a second hand one from the approved companies. Second hand always has a risk and the price reflects that. I know the stress my family had before deciding what second hand car to buy. But I also know the fact that they could replace a car mirror,body parts and even an engine with parts from cars in the junk yards - in the future your Apple/Tesla car will not let you start it if you replaced the windshield with one from a different car, you will need to use official replacement parts and use an official dealership that will remove the DRM locks for a big price. In this future a car with a broken engine will be scrapped instead no part will be reusable because it will be more profitable to make a new car or only fix the cars in the official dealerships.
- zepto 6y ago
  That doesn’t solve the problem. If other people buy insecure or faulty devices, I can be harmed.
  - simion314 6y ago
    >If other people buy insecure or faulty devices, I can be harmed. How can you say that I should not repair or upgrade my phone / laptop without Apple blessing because my device could harm you WHILE at the same time I can repair my car at a third party mechanic and fucking cars have more potential to cause damage then electronics and tractors, though car manufacturers are hating this are against right to repair and pushing this FUD campaigns. As long as you have the choice to repair your phone at an official place then is not your bussiness that some guy is capable to cleanup the water from the device itself or he is competent to fix is speackers or his car and fix it itself. When I was a kid I was "fixing" digital watches by replacing broken parts from other broken watches(most of them were using compatible displays or bracelets) but in future this evil corps want to make it illegal, make proprietary scres and copy right them so I can;t open the device, put DRM in them so I can't change a display etc the result would be a lot e-waste and more money for the corporations. And who knows maybe if you see a kid that opened up an electronic device you will call the police to handle the dangerous situation.
    - zepto 6y ago
      “How can you say that I should not repair or upgrade my phone / laptop without Apple blessing because my device could harm you WHILE at the same time I can repair my car at a third party mechanic and fucking cars have more potential to cause damage then electronics and tractors” Easy: The work of third party mechanics is not remotely comparable to diy repairs. They are: 1. Are strictly licensed 2. Are strictly regulated 3. Are liable for safety problems they cause. 4. Are required to carry insurance because of #3.

zepto 6y ago

Perhaps we should add - once a device has been modified or repaired, the manufacturer is indemnified against all consequences relating to its use. See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24810868 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24810868

simion314 6y ago
There are laws that are forcing the manufacturer to explain why me changing the mirror on a car would void my warranty of the engine. And is fair, if I changed something in the engine and the engine got destroyed because of it they will not have to pay anything. Is it impossible that 1 guy could abuse this system , yes it is possible, should be screw everyone else because of this possibility instead of finding a way to prevent the abuse? sure we should do this instead of screwing everyone and by "coincidence" making more money for the companies that are against right to repair.
- zepto 6y ago
  It’s really not clear what you are trying to say here.
  - simion314 6y ago
    We have already in most countries laws for warranty. My warranty is not just voided because I opened my laptop and cleared the dust and it is a good thing.
    - zepto 6y ago
      Ok, but the right to repair goes beyond just opening the laptop and clearing dust. Your warranty should be voided and the manufacturer should no longer be liable if you make unauthorized repairs.
      - rasz 6y ago
        Read Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. This is why car manufacturers cant pull this type of shit https://www.mclarenlife.com/threads/psa-mclaren-is-trying-to-sweep-this-issue-under-the-rug.99781/ https://www.mclarenlife.com/threads/psa-mclaren-is-trying-to...

bluGill 6y ago

Stolen parts are the danger. Theives steal cars and strip them for parts if they can get away with it.

simion314 6y ago
And cars get in accidents and parts could be re-used and sold. I assume stolen parts are profitable only in the market where this parts are hard to find, like for expensive limited edition cars. Make the parts available from multiple vendors , have them cheaper and less people would risk their liberty for cheap parts. Maybe we should also solve the crime problem more directly by catching the criminals or giving them jobs and not by screwing the society with making things un-repairable (and what I coincidence this is also very profitable for the big companies and affects only the small business and citizens, but yeah coincidences happen I am sure Tesla and Apple were thinking about theft and not about money)