3 ms·

While I certainly align with the sentiment, it's almost surreal to watch in action. If you don't buy products with these conditions you never once face these p

While I certainly align with the sentiment, it's almost surreal to watch in action. If you don't buy products with these conditions you never once face these problems. The title really should be: "fighting for the right to repair products I happily bought when the EULA clearly said I couldn't do that" Maybe stop buying these products and the companies will change their tune like the wind.

Wowfunhappy 6y ago
You mean the EULAs that no one ever reads because if they did, it would practically constitute a part-time job?
- msla 6y ago
  More to the point, EULAs companies insist they can change at will and without notice, with your continued use of the service constituting your assent to the changed terms. The courts might say it doesn't work like that — again — but that's rather cold comfort when you're locked out of the system on Wednesday for something which was allowed on Monday: https://medium.com/@jlkoepke/we-can-change-these-terms-at-anytime-the-detritus-of-terms-of-service-agreements-712409e2d0f1 https://medium.com/@jlkoepke/we-can-change-these-terms-at-an... https://archive.vn/gwVci https://archive.vn/gwVci https://web.archive.org/web/20201017150508/https://medium.com/@jlkoepke/we-can-change-these-terms-at-anytime-the-detritus-of-terms-of-service-agreements-712409e2d0f1 https://web.archive.org/web/20201017150508/https://medium.co...
jjoonathan 6y ago
Collective-action solutions for collective action problems? Nah, let's just wait for everyone to simultaneously sacrifice for the greater good. Any day now... any day...
rbecker 6y ago
> If you don't buy products with these conditions you never once face these problems. Until they're the only kind of products left. See smart TVs.
smichel17 6y ago
> products I happily bought I think this (emphasis mine) is somewhat disingenuous. Sometimes there are no other options, or they have significant tradeoffs (in ways that aren't due to that clause in the EULA). I think a better phrasing would be something like, "fighting against the ability of EULAs to restrict the buyer's right to repair". Drawing a parallel to an extreme, to show where the argument comes from: we also don't allow people to sign themselves into slavery, even though in some circumstances people will "happily" do just that.
metalliqaz 6y ago
"if you don't want to shop at the company store[1], don't shop at the company store" [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_store https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_store
thomasahle 6y ago
> Maybe stop buying these products and the companies will change their tune like the wind. That requires quite a high level of market efficiency to work. It might work if this was enterprise-enterprise trade, but it is unrealistic to assume the end user will compare (or even read) the long lawyerish EULAs and determine which will be more beneficial in the long term. I do agree that a specific law can feel like "a hack" and less elegant than a free market solution, but I don't really see how to achieve that here.
soulofmischief 6y ago
Buying a product with an illegal EULA and then refusing to adhere to the illegal EULA is in actuality one of the highest forms of protest around this topic that one can carry out. Otherwise you're complicit via fear.

Wowfunhappy 6y ago

You mean the EULAs that no one ever reads because if they did, it would practically constitute a part-time job?

msla 6y ago
More to the point, EULAs companies insist they can change at will and without notice, with your continued use of the service constituting your assent to the changed terms. The courts might say it doesn't work like that — again — but that's rather cold comfort when you're locked out of the system on Wednesday for something which was allowed on Monday: https://medium.com/@jlkoepke/we-can-change-these-terms-at-anytime-the-detritus-of-terms-of-service-agreements-712409e2d0f1 https://medium.com/@jlkoepke/we-can-change-these-terms-at-an... https://archive.vn/gwVci https://archive.vn/gwVci https://web.archive.org/web/20201017150508/https://medium.com/@jlkoepke/we-can-change-these-terms-at-anytime-the-detritus-of-terms-of-service-agreements-712409e2d0f1 https://web.archive.org/web/20201017150508/https://medium.co...

jjoonathan 6y ago

Collective-action solutions for collective action problems? Nah, let's just wait for everyone to simultaneously sacrifice for the greater good. Any day now... any day...

rbecker 6y ago

> If you don't buy products with these conditions you never once face these problems. Until they're the only kind of products left. See smart TVs.

smichel17 6y ago

> products I happily bought I think this (emphasis mine) is somewhat disingenuous. Sometimes there are no other options, or they have significant tradeoffs (in ways that aren't due to that clause in the EULA). I think a better phrasing would be something like, "fighting against the ability of EULAs to restrict the buyer's right to repair". Drawing a parallel to an extreme, to show where the argument comes from: we also don't allow people to sign themselves into slavery, even though in some circumstances people will "happily" do just that.

metalliqaz 6y ago

"if you don't want to shop at the company store[1], don't shop at the company store" [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_store https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_store

thomasahle 6y ago

> Maybe stop buying these products and the companies will change their tune like the wind. That requires quite a high level of market efficiency to work. It might work if this was enterprise-enterprise trade, but it is unrealistic to assume the end user will compare (or even read) the long lawyerish EULAs and determine which will be more beneficial in the long term. I do agree that a specific law can feel like "a hack" and less elegant than a free market solution, but I don't really see how to achieve that here.

soulofmischief 6y ago

Buying a product with an illegal EULA and then refusing to adhere to the illegal EULA is in actuality one of the highest forms of protest around this topic that one can carry out. Otherwise you're complicit via fear.