6 ms·

I am not denying that this is happening to people, because the facts are clear: it absolutely is. I just don't understand how it doesn't happen to me. I don't

I am not denying that this is happening to people, because the facts are clear: it absolutely is. I just don't understand how it doesn't happen to me. I don't leave updates hanging about for weeks and months, which explains how forced reboots are not a problem. Forced reboots are your own stupid fault, I have no pity at all. What doesn't make sense is that I get none of this crapware on my system. It's clearly possible to disable this garbage, I don't know how I have done it without restorting to any scripts. Edit: to clarify, as someone who very recently installed Win10 and Office. You do not have to reboot to install Office. Windows had to reboot because some critical update had to be installed, and office so happened to be installed at the same time. Don't get me wrong, I uninstall a few things after a fresh Windows install (edit 2: and that is unacceptable behavior from Microsoft). This article, however, is way off with the primary complaint: the reboot. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Allow Windows to update, because it really does know best. Edit 3: this is the Verge, who put bloody thermal paste onto a CPU when the AIO had it pre-installed. There isn't a high bar of journalism here.

bnt 6y ago
Maybe you disabled internet on your machine? /s
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
matsemann 6y ago
I'm in the same boat. Maybe how my work has configured my laptop or something, some group policy?
- pvg 6y ago
  You can definitely turn off the random reboot with policies, on Pro and up.
  - breakingcups 6y ago
    Yep, if you're a home user, get bent. Your wishes don't matter to Microsoft.
RossBencina 6y ago
Do you reboot your machine regularly as a matter of course? I do not. My desktop machine is always up -- except when I am forced to reboot by Microsoft. As far as I'm concerned, the problem is that the system is unable to update itself without rebooting.
- AmericanChopper 6y ago
  My MacBook needs to reboot to install updates. It never bothers me though because of nice little features like letting me choose when to do it. My Windows machine seems to reboot anytime I take my eyes of it for a few seconds.
  - RossBencina 6y ago
    My Windows machine lets me defer updates for up to 30 days. I do that. But then I have to go through a whole dance of updating, rebooting, deferring for 30 days, then putting all of my workspaces back together.
    - AmericanChopper 6y ago
      If I wanted basic functionality to be locked behind tedious admin tasks, I'd just install a Linux distro. As it stands, I just use Windows for games. So it's no big deal when it craps itself.
- zamalek 6y ago
  > As far as I'm concerned, the problem is that the system is unable to update itself without rebooting. You are absolutely correct! There was a brief period during XP, I think, where this was the case. Irrespective of that, reboots are a fact of life if you have Windows installed, and allowing and choosing the best time for Windows to reboot is a part of having Windows installed. Don't use Windows if you can't deal with the reboots. Use Mac or Linux.
  - SkinTaco 6y ago
    >Don't use Windows if you can't deal with the reboots. Use Mac or Linux. Are you the person in charge of this at msft or something? Because frankly I can't see a way to say that with a straight face. "let your computer tell you what to do or use an OS that is inferior because the competition paid literally millions of dollars and abused extreme nepotism to make it that way" Trust me, I'd love to use Linux. But it sucks, because billg and the other founding Microsoft members went out of their way to make it that way. E: I don't know why I'm getting down voted for this, it's a documented thing that really happened. Here's one example of one (of the many) times that it happed: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/05/how-bill-gates-mother-influenced-the-success-of-microsoft.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/05/how-bill-gates-mother-influe... Another example would be the fake error messages they put out on computers that ran DRDos instead of their own DOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DR-DOS#DR_DOS_6.0_/_Competition_from_Microsoft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DR-DOS#DR_DOS_6.0_/_Competitio... >In December 1991, a pre-release version of Windows 3.1 was found to return a non-fatal error message if it detected a non-Microsoft DOS.[7] ... It was a simple matter for Digital Research to patch DR DOS 6.0 to circumvent the AARD code 'authenticity check' in the Windows 3.1 beta by rearranging the order of two internal tables in memory (with no changes in functionality) ... With the detection code disabled, Windows ran perfectly under DR DOS and its successor Novell DOS. The code was present but disabled in the released version of Windows 3.1.[23] You might not remember it if you weren't alive 20 years ago but microsoft played dirty to get to the market position they are in today. FOSS had no hope, and acting like people should just forget this and use crippled software instead is unfair.
detaro 6y ago
On the higher versions (Pro, Enterprise) you can turn off the automatic reboots relatively easily. Otherwise it might be that your usage pattern fits how it expects it - e.g. if you only use it during the workday, the "work time" settings match and you shut down and install pending updates each day it might never trigger for you.
wrren 6y ago
It's likely that the author is running Windows 10 Home edition, which is probably more aggressive than the Pro version about annoying users.
- wozer 6y ago
  Usually I would agree, but a few days ago, my Pro machine did a forced reboot, for the first time.
  - pas 6y ago
    Pro does it fairly often. I have 2 notebooks and a desktop that experience it. It's possible to disable it via group policy as far as I know. The annoying thing is that the advance warning is gone, probably some default setting says that it will reboot sometime, but I very rarely get notified that updates are pending and that today/tomorrow I'll get a forced reboot. It just does it when I lock/close/sleep the laptop/desktop.
pdkl95 6y ago
Given the widespread use of "A/B testing" and targeted/algorithmic ads/UX/content, I don't understand why anyone would expect consistent behavior from any software. Unless you have matching SHA-256 hashes, the default heuristic should be to assume that you might have a "customized"/testing variation of the software. We really need to get in the habit of including hashes when talking about software behavior.
permo-w 6y ago
Side point: Whatever this article says, you don’t have to use scripts. You can simply change write permissions to the windowsapps folder, which is where the crapware gets installed It stops windows store auto-updates, and I’m not sure about this, but I think it might stop you installing apps from the windows store without granting the permissions back temporarily, but either way I’ll take that trade-off
Yizahi 6y ago
Same here. I often run both my home Win10 PC and corporate Win10 laptop for weeks and they never force reboot. But rebooting to update at least once a month or so is just a sane thing to do. On laptops especially, they start to overheat a bit after prolonged heavy usage and it is good to spin them down sometimes. Sure, it would be nice to have in service updates on Win10, but that is a minor annoyance compared to breaking issues on Linux desktops.
m463 6y ago
There are two ways to have fewer popups: - switch to linux (ubuntu might be the exception) - Do what they want. Install the app. Turn on automatic updates. Do not worry when they change something and adapt to the new normal.
literallycancer 6y ago
I'm pretty sure most people are not aware of the LTSC builds, which are the only sane way to use Windows. All the regular builds have a ton of garbage included, like who wants to look at politicians' faces and read about their stupid antics when they open the menu? I don't see why people pay for that stuff.
Falkon1313 6y ago
Doesn't happen to me either. I can get 120 days of uptime without a problem. Could probably go longer, but I do updates at least quarterly. I also don't have those tiles or ads turned on in my start menu, or any of the other stuff people complain about.

bnt 6y ago

Maybe you disabled internet on your machine? /s

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

matsemann 6y ago

I'm in the same boat. Maybe how my work has configured my laptop or something, some group policy?

pvg 6y ago
You can definitely turn off the random reboot with policies, on Pro and up.
- breakingcups 6y ago
  Yep, if you're a home user, get bent. Your wishes don't matter to Microsoft.

RossBencina 6y ago

Do you reboot your machine regularly as a matter of course? I do not. My desktop machine is always up -- except when I am forced to reboot by Microsoft. As far as I'm concerned, the problem is that the system is unable to update itself without rebooting.

AmericanChopper 6y ago
My MacBook needs to reboot to install updates. It never bothers me though because of nice little features like letting me choose when to do it. My Windows machine seems to reboot anytime I take my eyes of it for a few seconds.
- RossBencina 6y ago
  My Windows machine lets me defer updates for up to 30 days. I do that. But then I have to go through a whole dance of updating, rebooting, deferring for 30 days, then putting all of my workspaces back together.
  - AmericanChopper 6y ago
    If I wanted basic functionality to be locked behind tedious admin tasks, I'd just install a Linux distro. As it stands, I just use Windows for games. So it's no big deal when it craps itself.
zamalek 6y ago
> As far as I'm concerned, the problem is that the system is unable to update itself without rebooting. You are absolutely correct! There was a brief period during XP, I think, where this was the case. Irrespective of that, reboots are a fact of life if you have Windows installed, and allowing and choosing the best time for Windows to reboot is a part of having Windows installed. Don't use Windows if you can't deal with the reboots. Use Mac or Linux.
- SkinTaco 6y ago
  >Don't use Windows if you can't deal with the reboots. Use Mac or Linux. Are you the person in charge of this at msft or something? Because frankly I can't see a way to say that with a straight face. "let your computer tell you what to do or use an OS that is inferior because the competition paid literally millions of dollars and abused extreme nepotism to make it that way" Trust me, I'd love to use Linux. But it sucks, because billg and the other founding Microsoft members went out of their way to make it that way. E: I don't know why I'm getting down voted for this, it's a documented thing that really happened. Here's one example of one (of the many) times that it happed: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/05/how-bill-gates-mother-influenced-the-success-of-microsoft.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/05/how-bill-gates-mother-influe... Another example would be the fake error messages they put out on computers that ran DRDos instead of their own DOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DR-DOS#DR_DOS_6.0_/_Competition_from_Microsoft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DR-DOS#DR_DOS_6.0_/_Competitio... >In December 1991, a pre-release version of Windows 3.1 was found to return a non-fatal error message if it detected a non-Microsoft DOS.[7] ... It was a simple matter for Digital Research to patch DR DOS 6.0 to circumvent the AARD code 'authenticity check' in the Windows 3.1 beta by rearranging the order of two internal tables in memory (with no changes in functionality) ... With the detection code disabled, Windows ran perfectly under DR DOS and its successor Novell DOS. The code was present but disabled in the released version of Windows 3.1.[23] You might not remember it if you weren't alive 20 years ago but microsoft played dirty to get to the market position they are in today. FOSS had no hope, and acting like people should just forget this and use crippled software instead is unfair.

detaro 6y ago

On the higher versions (Pro, Enterprise) you can turn off the automatic reboots relatively easily. Otherwise it might be that your usage pattern fits how it expects it - e.g. if you only use it during the workday, the "work time" settings match and you shut down and install pending updates each day it might never trigger for you.

wrren 6y ago

It's likely that the author is running Windows 10 Home edition, which is probably more aggressive than the Pro version about annoying users.

wozer 6y ago
Usually I would agree, but a few days ago, my Pro machine did a forced reboot, for the first time.
- pas 6y ago
  Pro does it fairly often. I have 2 notebooks and a desktop that experience it. It's possible to disable it via group policy as far as I know. The annoying thing is that the advance warning is gone, probably some default setting says that it will reboot sometime, but I very rarely get notified that updates are pending and that today/tomorrow I'll get a forced reboot. It just does it when I lock/close/sleep the laptop/desktop.

pdkl95 6y ago

Given the widespread use of "A/B testing" and targeted/algorithmic ads/UX/content, I don't understand why anyone would expect consistent behavior from any software. Unless you have matching SHA-256 hashes, the default heuristic should be to assume that you might have a "customized"/testing variation of the software. We really need to get in the habit of including hashes when talking about software behavior.

permo-w 6y ago

Side point: Whatever this article says, you don’t have to use scripts. You can simply change write permissions to the windowsapps folder, which is where the crapware gets installed It stops windows store auto-updates, and I’m not sure about this, but I think it might stop you installing apps from the windows store without granting the permissions back temporarily, but either way I’ll take that trade-off

Yizahi 6y ago

Same here. I often run both my home Win10 PC and corporate Win10 laptop for weeks and they never force reboot. But rebooting to update at least once a month or so is just a sane thing to do. On laptops especially, they start to overheat a bit after prolonged heavy usage and it is good to spin them down sometimes. Sure, it would be nice to have in service updates on Win10, but that is a minor annoyance compared to breaking issues on Linux desktops.

m463 6y ago

There are two ways to have fewer popups: - switch to linux (ubuntu might be the exception) - Do what they want. Install the app. Turn on automatic updates. Do not worry when they change something and adapt to the new normal.

literallycancer 6y ago

I'm pretty sure most people are not aware of the LTSC builds, which are the only sane way to use Windows. All the regular builds have a ton of garbage included, like who wants to look at politicians' faces and read about their stupid antics when they open the menu? I don't see why people pay for that stuff.

Falkon1313 6y ago

Doesn't happen to me either. I can get 120 days of uptime without a problem. Could probably go longer, but I do updates at least quarterly. I also don't have those tiles or ads turned on in my start menu, or any of the other stuff people complain about.