3 ms·

Here's my POV. If you can't understand what RMS is saying or what he is about - then probably you are not his target audience. Stop telling him to water down h

Here's my POV. If you can't understand what RMS is saying or what he is about - then probably you are not his target audience. Stop telling him to water down his act. He can't and he must not. He is somewhat prescient on these issues (as he has proven more than once) and to lower his tone would be to admit defeat. He is the prime mover and as such he is not Your momma's evangelist - he is your momma's evangelist's evangelist. Don't listen to him if you don't like him - you can always get to hear it by proxy that will be more suitable to your ears.

pstack 16y ago
The problem is that some people feel some other people hurt the overall cause. There are plenty of hackers out there (using the legitimate Eric S. Raymond definition) who would respond to the antics of Anonymous with "Even if we agreed with your sentiment, the way you present yourselves hurt all of us". This is a similar case. Additionally, the response by RMS seems kind of odd. I read the original letter and it didn't imply that the author disagreed with RMS. It merely took issue with how some of the extraneous bits may undermine the rest in the eyes of a greater public. Saying that he is skeptical of advice from those who disagree with him is a non-sequitor. It's like me saying "I used to use CVS, but then I moved to Subversion and now GIT is my preferred RMS". There's a certain skill in presenting a cause and a view to a greater public that you're trying to educate. If RMS's cause is merely to preach to the converted, then what is the point? I don't think he is, however. After all, it's the Free Software Foundation. Not the Free Software Club. If the only people who listen to him are the ones who already like him, then the cause is stagnating.
kelnos 16y ago
I think the problem is that the mainstream doesn't view RMS/free software and open source as different things. When RMS gets in front of a group of people and shoots his mouth off (I heard him speak at FOSDEM in 2005 and had a similar reaction as Alexey), he hurts the rest of us who don't have such extreme views. I don't need to hear his or anyone else's evangelism on free or open source software. I already know where I stand. Alexey's original open letter pointed out that some of his friends who'd never heard of the FSF before walked out of Stallman's speech because they were put off by what he was saying. In those people's eyes, that reflects poorly not only on RMS and the FSF, but on open source as a whole. And that's what pisses me off about Stallman.
- JanezStupar 16y ago
  Yes everybody agrees that his manners suck. But that is not what FSF or Stallman is about. The key question is of whether he is right about practical implications of sharing or not sharing, which mostly he is. He is not only obnoxious and unlikeable person in history that sports a true genius. So let people who are capable of understanding what he is saying and also have the ability to translate to masses do their work. That might be you - so go ahead and don't pay any attention to RMS if you don't want to. However you might want to calibrate yourself on RMS once and awhile :). He is a human being and an exceptional one at that. And saying: Richard be like this or Richard be like that, accomplishes nothing. It's like telling a rose not to grow thorns.
  - kelnos 16y ago
    The key question is of whether he is right about practical implications of sharing or not sharing, which mostly he is. Sure, I'll buy that, but I still believe he's a terrible spokesperson for the FSF and (intentionally or otherwise) for free/open source software as a whole. He's not persuasive to anyone but people who already agree with him, and he tends to come off as arrogant and condescending. And as much as I don't want to "judge a book by its cover," many people do, and let's face it: the man looks like a maladjusted hippie most of the time, which I don't think many people relate to anymore. Any way you try to spin it, that's not a good way to evoke sympathy for your cause. But yet we're kinda stuck with him. However you might want to calibrate yourself on RMS once and awhile :). Haha, I really like how you put that, and you're very right. I was a little afraid that I might come off similar to RMS in my original post, (incorrectly) implying that I'd already made up my mind and wasn't interested in hearing others' opinions. But yes, it's always good to check in now and then. He is a human being and an exceptional one at that. And saying: Richard be like this or Richard be like that, accomplishes nothing. It's like telling a rose not to grow thorns. Yeah, I know, but I wish the FSF could... "manage" him a bit better, and perhaps promote as their spokesperson someone more likable and able to talk to people without alienating them.

pstack 16y ago

The problem is that some people feel some other people hurt the overall cause. There are plenty of hackers out there (using the legitimate Eric S. Raymond definition) who would respond to the antics of Anonymous with "Even if we agreed with your sentiment, the way you present yourselves hurt all of us". This is a similar case. Additionally, the response by RMS seems kind of odd. I read the original letter and it didn't imply that the author disagreed with RMS. It merely took issue with how some of the extraneous bits may undermine the rest in the eyes of a greater public. Saying that he is skeptical of advice from those who disagree with him is a non-sequitor. It's like me saying "I used to use CVS, but then I moved to Subversion and now GIT is my preferred RMS". There's a certain skill in presenting a cause and a view to a greater public that you're trying to educate. If RMS's cause is merely to preach to the converted, then what is the point? I don't think he is, however. After all, it's the Free Software Foundation. Not the Free Software Club. If the only people who listen to him are the ones who already like him, then the cause is stagnating.

kelnos 16y ago

I think the problem is that the mainstream doesn't view RMS/free software and open source as different things. When RMS gets in front of a group of people and shoots his mouth off (I heard him speak at FOSDEM in 2005 and had a similar reaction as Alexey), he hurts the rest of us who don't have such extreme views. I don't need to hear his or anyone else's evangelism on free or open source software. I already know where I stand. Alexey's original open letter pointed out that some of his friends who'd never heard of the FSF before walked out of Stallman's speech because they were put off by what he was saying. In those people's eyes, that reflects poorly not only on RMS and the FSF, but on open source as a whole. And that's what pisses me off about Stallman.

JanezStupar 16y ago
Yes everybody agrees that his manners suck. But that is not what FSF or Stallman is about. The key question is of whether he is right about practical implications of sharing or not sharing, which mostly he is. He is not only obnoxious and unlikeable person in history that sports a true genius. So let people who are capable of understanding what he is saying and also have the ability to translate to masses do their work. That might be you - so go ahead and don't pay any attention to RMS if you don't want to. However you might want to calibrate yourself on RMS once and awhile :). He is a human being and an exceptional one at that. And saying: Richard be like this or Richard be like that, accomplishes nothing. It's like telling a rose not to grow thorns.
- kelnos 16y ago
  The key question is of whether he is right about practical implications of sharing or not sharing, which mostly he is. Sure, I'll buy that, but I still believe he's a terrible spokesperson for the FSF and (intentionally or otherwise) for free/open source software as a whole. He's not persuasive to anyone but people who already agree with him, and he tends to come off as arrogant and condescending. And as much as I don't want to "judge a book by its cover," many people do, and let's face it: the man looks like a maladjusted hippie most of the time, which I don't think many people relate to anymore. Any way you try to spin it, that's not a good way to evoke sympathy for your cause. But yet we're kinda stuck with him. However you might want to calibrate yourself on RMS once and awhile :). Haha, I really like how you put that, and you're very right. I was a little afraid that I might come off similar to RMS in my original post, (incorrectly) implying that I'd already made up my mind and wasn't interested in hearing others' opinions. But yes, it's always good to check in now and then. He is a human being and an exceptional one at that. And saying: Richard be like this or Richard be like that, accomplishes nothing. It's like telling a rose not to grow thorns. Yeah, I know, but I wish the FSF could... "manage" him a bit better, and perhaps promote as their spokesperson someone more likable and able to talk to people without alienating them.