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> Yet the companies it protects the most are the ones I feel are the worst. Assessing legal risk of user-generated content is a financial barrier that only the

> Yet the companies it protects the most are the ones I feel are the worst. Assessing legal risk of user-generated content is a financial barrier that only the companies you feel are the worst will be able to overcome. We're discussing law in the comments here like we're all lawyers but let's face it--very few of us are up to the task of determining what is and is not illegal, and even fewer of us could actually survive if that assessment was challenged. User generated content ends up having a massive upfront legal cost, and I predict it will become extinct (both future and retroactive) for US-based sites if Section 230 is repealed... > The centralized nature of Facebook actually allows for larger scale manipulation of the narrative. ...except on sites like Facebook, who make unimaginable amounts of money and can likely afford to fund private development of automoderation software and can weather the storm of lawsuits for content that manages to evade the filter. Facebook will only become more centralized as other online communication platforms are unable to bear the costs of publishing user generated content, and their control over the narrative will increase. > Maybe that would drive people to create their own websites once again. Sure, but how are people going to find these websites if I'm effectively reliant on the tech giants to tell people about it? Do you trust Facebook to not start censoring links to external websites? If there's no Section 230, then they could easily justify censoring off-site linking by saying they can't moderate the content of uncontrolled sites. How is Google going to exist if it's liable for what it links to? How are content aggregators going to exist? Forums? Chat rooms? > Facebook just disappeared off of the Internet tomorrow - I'm not really sure I would mourn that Same, but Facebook's not going anywhere. It'll just start charging its billions of users directly and continue telling me what I can and cannot read according to the whims of people I don't know and have no influence over. Meanwhile, all of my other options for discussion will slowly start disappearing as it becomes too costly to continue operating. There are better options than allowing that future to happen.

reggieband 6y ago
> We're discussing law in the comments here like we're all lawyers Even worse, we are discussing the future social effects of changes to law as if we were psychics. Not even lawyers or the best judges could claim to do that correctly. The default position seems to be "revoking Section 230 will ruin the Internet". I'm honestly trying to see how and I just don't see it. It would change the Internet and it would make certain classes of business more difficult. > Facebook will only become more centralized as other online communication platforms are unable to bear the costs of publishing user generated content I don't see a substantial change in Facebook's position either way. Is everyone still waiting for Mastodon to usurp it? Or maybe we dream of some young, ethical startup to win the hearts and minds of the globe and show us all how to be benevolent in this space? The idea that Section 230 somehow helps create the conditions that gets us out of the mess we are in is a pipe dream. I would love someone to sketch me out a plan, based around the legal protection around aggregating user generated content provided by the current laws, that slays the beast of Facebook. > Do you trust Facebook to not start censoring links to external websites? Not anymore or less than I trust Facebook to show my posts on anyone else's feed. In a world where there is Gigabytes of content generated each day, more content than any human could possibly digest, Facebook necessarily shows you some slice of it. The fact that we don't hold them accountable for the slice they choose is frankly crazy to me. > How are content aggregators going to exist? Forums? Chat rooms? Should /unmoderated/ content aggregators, forums and chat rooms exit? This is a fundamental question which I am scratching at. It seems people are making a motte and bailey argument here. They seem to suggest content aggregation couldn't exist without Section 230. This is hyperbole. It would mean the platforms that aggregate user generated content would be forced to strictly moderate it or face legal trouble. > How is Google going to exist if it's liable for what it links to? That brings us firmly in the territory of law that I am not familiar with. I know there are cases where the question of publishing links and how that relates to content and/or copyright is grey. However, what liability I would face if I were to post a link on my own blog to someone else's content is something I have no knowledge of. > Meanwhile, all of my other options for discussion will slowly start disappearing as it becomes too costly to continue operating. I'm not sure this is necessarily true. Outside of reddit and hacker news I can't think of any other space I even bother posting anything. The majority of my meaningful communication is done 1-on-1. We're treating a specific class of communication as sacrosanct. Not even: I'm free to say what I want. But rather, I'm free to create open public spaces where anyone else can post anything they want. We're talking about a very specific kind of thing and I'm unsure if that specific thing is worth having at all.

reggieband 6y ago

> We're discussing law in the comments here like we're all lawyers Even worse, we are discussing the future social effects of changes to law as if we were psychics. Not even lawyers or the best judges could claim to do that correctly. The default position seems to be "revoking Section 230 will ruin the Internet". I'm honestly trying to see how and I just don't see it. It would change the Internet and it would make certain classes of business more difficult. > Facebook will only become more centralized as other online communication platforms are unable to bear the costs of publishing user generated content I don't see a substantial change in Facebook's position either way. Is everyone still waiting for Mastodon to usurp it? Or maybe we dream of some young, ethical startup to win the hearts and minds of the globe and show us all how to be benevolent in this space? The idea that Section 230 somehow helps create the conditions that gets us out of the mess we are in is a pipe dream. I would love someone to sketch me out a plan, based around the legal protection around aggregating user generated content provided by the current laws, that slays the beast of Facebook. > Do you trust Facebook to not start censoring links to external websites? Not anymore or less than I trust Facebook to show my posts on anyone else's feed. In a world where there is Gigabytes of content generated each day, more content than any human could possibly digest, Facebook necessarily shows you some slice of it. The fact that we don't hold them accountable for the slice they choose is frankly crazy to me. > How are content aggregators going to exist? Forums? Chat rooms? Should /unmoderated/ content aggregators, forums and chat rooms exit? This is a fundamental question which I am scratching at. It seems people are making a motte and bailey argument here. They seem to suggest content aggregation couldn't exist without Section 230. This is hyperbole. It would mean the platforms that aggregate user generated content would be forced to strictly moderate it or face legal trouble. > How is Google going to exist if it's liable for what it links to? That brings us firmly in the territory of law that I am not familiar with. I know there are cases where the question of publishing links and how that relates to content and/or copyright is grey. However, what liability I would face if I were to post a link on my own blog to someone else's content is something I have no knowledge of. > Meanwhile, all of my other options for discussion will slowly start disappearing as it becomes too costly to continue operating. I'm not sure this is necessarily true. Outside of reddit and hacker news I can't think of any other space I even bother posting anything. The majority of my meaningful communication is done 1-on-1. We're treating a specific class of communication as sacrosanct. Not even: I'm free to say what I want. But rather, I'm free to create open public spaces where anyone else can post anything they want. We're talking about a very specific kind of thing and I'm unsure if that specific thing is worth having at all.