5 ms·

Why do you suppose the only way user content can possibly be shared on the Internet is through content aggregation sites? I am suggesting this is a blindspot we

Why do you suppose the only way user content can possibly be shared on the Internet is through content aggregation sites? I am suggesting this is a blindspot we've all fallen into that may have created the monsters we are now fighting to protect. > Your extremely short sighted position I am getting this a lot in this comment section so far. I mean, hey we should all be thick-skinned, right? My disagreement with your conclusions or predictions of what would happen doesn't mean I suffer from myopia and it isn't very polite to suggest otherwise. Central aggregation of user generated content isn't the only possible mechanism to do anything on the Internet. Removing the legal protections for aggregators may slow growth and make it significantly more difficult to centrally aggregate content, but that might actually be a good thing.

malwrar 6y ago
> Why do you suppose the only way user content can possibly be shared on the Internet is through content aggregation sites? Do you have an alternative that could survive if user-generated content is made legally risky to host and is subject to the whims of moderators on the few sites/publishers that can afford to bear those risks?
giantrobot 6y ago
I'm sorry but you are suffering from serious myopia by getting hung up on big sites like Facebook or YouTube. Removing protections for sites hosting content will have a deleterious effect on the entire Internet. As I said and you conveniently ignore, user generated content would have to be scrubbed from the Internet except from the big players like Facebook that can afford an army of moderators. So first order problem is big sites like Facebook would be the only venues of user generated content. It also creates a slippery slope for ISPs/hosting companies. It could easily be interpreted that an ISP or hosting company is hosting user generated content, they literally are, so they're liable for that content. They would not carry any content that might make them liable for anything so they'll either shut down or moderate their services such individuals have no means to post their own content. ISPs already restrict or block hosting content, they would only get more draconian if they faved legal liability for someone hosting a site. You can't suggest a course of action that would consolidate power in big sites like Facebook and then opine about people posting content outside of those sites. There would no longer be an "outside" of Facebook because no small player could ever afford the moderation or insurance against liability. You might dislike Facebook or YouTube and they might be filled with dreck. They might need their own types of regulation but dooming all user generated content because Facebook's management are assholes is not a fix. Instead of getting offended when people point out your myopia maybe take a step back and apply some critical thought to your suggestions.
- reggieband 6y ago
  > As I said and you conveniently ignore, user generated content would have to be scrubbed from the Internet except from the big players like Facebook I've repeated it ad nauseam but I'll repeat it again - this is just hyperbole. In what capacity do the majority of Internet users aggregate the content of others? I'm thinking about my own use of the Internet. In what capacity do I own domains or applications where I personally publish the content generated by others? Let's consider a few possible cases (which do not apply to me). I have a blog with a comment section. Someone posts some comment that leaves me open to legal liability. I have a few options including turning off comments on my blog, moderating all comments on my blog before they go live, paying a third party to handle moderation (and indemnify/insure me against legal liability). Second, I am passionate about some hobby and wish to create a public forum on a domain I host that allows for the discussion. Malicious participants start to show up that start to post content on this unmoderated forum that open me up to legal liability. Again, I have to deal with this now in some capacity. Third, I am an entrepreneur with my sights on a startup. This startup is like an Instagram, Pinterest, Reddit, Tumbler/Blogger, Medium, Quora, Yahoo Answers, Stack Overflow etc. I am concerned that malicious actors will use my new venture to publish malicious content. Right now, I don't care I just build it without any worry. Without Section 230 I have to seriously think about how I ensure content is moderated. I'm just not seeing the Internet break in any of these scenarios. I'm not seeing the Internet being scrubbed of content. In fact, as far as I can tell all of the above happens already to some degree. Do you expect defamatory content on stack overflow? Or do you expect it to be removed?
  - davorak 6y ago
    > paying a third party to handle moderation (and indemnify/insure me against legal liability). For any criminal material that makes it through the 3rd party moderation the publisher will be criminal liable. The third party can pay for the publishers lawyer to defend the publisher in court, but if the publisher is found guilty they will be the one in jail not the third party moderation service. Ensuring the above does not happen is in part why Section 230 was put in place, at least to my understanding. Your argument here does not seem to consider criminal liability does that change your outlook or was it already incorporated in your viewpoint somehow?

malwrar 6y ago

> Why do you suppose the only way user content can possibly be shared on the Internet is through content aggregation sites? Do you have an alternative that could survive if user-generated content is made legally risky to host and is subject to the whims of moderators on the few sites/publishers that can afford to bear those risks?

giantrobot 6y ago

I'm sorry but you are suffering from serious myopia by getting hung up on big sites like Facebook or YouTube. Removing protections for sites hosting content will have a deleterious effect on the entire Internet. As I said and you conveniently ignore, user generated content would have to be scrubbed from the Internet except from the big players like Facebook that can afford an army of moderators. So first order problem is big sites like Facebook would be the only venues of user generated content. It also creates a slippery slope for ISPs/hosting companies. It could easily be interpreted that an ISP or hosting company is hosting user generated content, they literally are, so they're liable for that content. They would not carry any content that might make them liable for anything so they'll either shut down or moderate their services such individuals have no means to post their own content. ISPs already restrict or block hosting content, they would only get more draconian if they faved legal liability for someone hosting a site. You can't suggest a course of action that would consolidate power in big sites like Facebook and then opine about people posting content outside of those sites. There would no longer be an "outside" of Facebook because no small player could ever afford the moderation or insurance against liability. You might dislike Facebook or YouTube and they might be filled with dreck. They might need their own types of regulation but dooming all user generated content because Facebook's management are assholes is not a fix. Instead of getting offended when people point out your myopia maybe take a step back and apply some critical thought to your suggestions.

reggieband 6y ago
> As I said and you conveniently ignore, user generated content would have to be scrubbed from the Internet except from the big players like Facebook I've repeated it ad nauseam but I'll repeat it again - this is just hyperbole. In what capacity do the majority of Internet users aggregate the content of others? I'm thinking about my own use of the Internet. In what capacity do I own domains or applications where I personally publish the content generated by others? Let's consider a few possible cases (which do not apply to me). I have a blog with a comment section. Someone posts some comment that leaves me open to legal liability. I have a few options including turning off comments on my blog, moderating all comments on my blog before they go live, paying a third party to handle moderation (and indemnify/insure me against legal liability). Second, I am passionate about some hobby and wish to create a public forum on a domain I host that allows for the discussion. Malicious participants start to show up that start to post content on this unmoderated forum that open me up to legal liability. Again, I have to deal with this now in some capacity. Third, I am an entrepreneur with my sights on a startup. This startup is like an Instagram, Pinterest, Reddit, Tumbler/Blogger, Medium, Quora, Yahoo Answers, Stack Overflow etc. I am concerned that malicious actors will use my new venture to publish malicious content. Right now, I don't care I just build it without any worry. Without Section 230 I have to seriously think about how I ensure content is moderated. I'm just not seeing the Internet break in any of these scenarios. I'm not seeing the Internet being scrubbed of content. In fact, as far as I can tell all of the above happens already to some degree. Do you expect defamatory content on stack overflow? Or do you expect it to be removed?
- davorak 6y ago
  > paying a third party to handle moderation (and indemnify/insure me against legal liability). For any criminal material that makes it through the 3rd party moderation the publisher will be criminal liable. The third party can pay for the publishers lawyer to defend the publisher in court, but if the publisher is found guilty they will be the one in jail not the third party moderation service. Ensuring the above does not happen is in part why Section 230 was put in place, at least to my understanding. Your argument here does not seem to consider criminal liability does that change your outlook or was it already incorporated in your viewpoint somehow?