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Remember that Section 230 isn't just about the big, centralized services. It protects everybody who's ever run a phpBB forum for their little community, or allo

Remember that Section 230 isn't just about the big, centralized services. It protects everybody who's ever run a phpBB forum for their little community, or allowed comments on their blog, or set up a Mastodon instance they share with others. If you host content written by someone else, Section 230 is what allows you to moderate it, and what prevents you from being legally liable for it. Proposals requiring "political neutrality" even add new burdens to be compliant with; your friend on your Mastodon ranting about "that politician" probably isn't "neutral" publishing. Facebook et al. could be big enough to wrangle the regulatory burden of existing without these protections. But many proposed 230 "reforms" could scare off anyone smaller, creating a regulatory moat that keeps Facebook at the top in perpetuity.

reggieband 6y ago
Yes, believe it or not I am questioning whether or not I should be free from liability if I host a public forum. And my conclusion is: perhaps I should be liable if I stand up a public forum. You may suggest that would prevent me from creating a user-generated-content application of massive scale without the resources to sufficiently moderate it. And again, yes - maybe that should be a requirement of me doing such a thing. It isn't like the only kind of business a person could create on the internet is one that surrounds the aggregation of user generated content. If it killed that entire class of business ... I am not sure we would lose very much of value that couldn't be replaced by individuals hosting their own content.
- spiffytech 6y ago
  > of massive scale Of even tiny, microscopic scale. Even your personal blog's comments, or the forum for your local club. And it _still_ won't stop Facebook. It'll only stop _you_. That outcome doesn't sound like the outcome you're saying you may be comfortable with. It sounds like the opposite.
  - reggieband 6y ago
    > That outcome doesn't sound like the outcome you're saying you may be comfortable with. Oh no, I'm considering exactly that. I am saying: if my tiny personal blog has a comment section I would be liable for comments posted there. If that is a burden I can't handle then I should turn off comments. At least in my experience those comment sections are a complete waste of space anyway and the trend I've noticed from the large blogs that are still around (e.g. daringfireball, kottke) is that their comment sections are long gone anyway. What I am pondering is: would this ruin the Internet? If I couldn't host a public forum if it got beyond my limited means to moderate? If I couldn't have a public comment section? It doesn't seem clear to me the Internet breaks if I am forced to own the responsibility for those things that I allow to be made public through sites I control.
    - malwrar 6y ago
      > What I am pondering is: would this ruin the Internet? If I couldn't host a public forum if it got beyond my limited means to moderate? Do you actually have the means to moderate your forum and fund the legal trouble you might face should you get it wrong? Are you ready for the bad actors who abuse this bottleneck to take down content they don't like? I don't think many people are positioned to handle these burdens, and I think the internet will be ruined as a result.
    - davorak 6y ago
      > What I am pondering is: would this ruin the Internet? It would break most of how the internet works today. It would prevent most forms of real time, one to many, communication since a human would first have to moderate it. Best example is public audio/video conferencing. I watched a conference presentation in real time today, which had real time comments in IRC and an audio/video conference question and answer. Neither of which would have been possible if real time moderation was required. How would moderation even work for audio/video conferences? As far as I can tell it would not work since no moderation could happen in real time and allow for smooth audio/video conferencing. What if we act as a platform though and claim no responsibility for the content that happens? Then there is no ability to set topics or restrict offensive material etc so any random person(or bot since how would you tell the difference) could streaming in offensive videos or loud noise Loosing most, one to many, real time communication would be throwing out a considerable amount of value. Do you have solutions for issues like that? edit clarifying that I am taling about one to many real time communication.

reggieband 6y ago

Yes, believe it or not I am questioning whether or not I should be free from liability if I host a public forum. And my conclusion is: perhaps I should be liable if I stand up a public forum. You may suggest that would prevent me from creating a user-generated-content application of massive scale without the resources to sufficiently moderate it. And again, yes - maybe that should be a requirement of me doing such a thing. It isn't like the only kind of business a person could create on the internet is one that surrounds the aggregation of user generated content. If it killed that entire class of business ... I am not sure we would lose very much of value that couldn't be replaced by individuals hosting their own content.

spiffytech 6y ago
> of massive scale Of even tiny, microscopic scale. Even your personal blog's comments, or the forum for your local club. And it _still_ won't stop Facebook. It'll only stop _you_. That outcome doesn't sound like the outcome you're saying you may be comfortable with. It sounds like the opposite.
- reggieband 6y ago
  > That outcome doesn't sound like the outcome you're saying you may be comfortable with. Oh no, I'm considering exactly that. I am saying: if my tiny personal blog has a comment section I would be liable for comments posted there. If that is a burden I can't handle then I should turn off comments. At least in my experience those comment sections are a complete waste of space anyway and the trend I've noticed from the large blogs that are still around (e.g. daringfireball, kottke) is that their comment sections are long gone anyway. What I am pondering is: would this ruin the Internet? If I couldn't host a public forum if it got beyond my limited means to moderate? If I couldn't have a public comment section? It doesn't seem clear to me the Internet breaks if I am forced to own the responsibility for those things that I allow to be made public through sites I control.
  - malwrar 6y ago
    > What I am pondering is: would this ruin the Internet? If I couldn't host a public forum if it got beyond my limited means to moderate? Do you actually have the means to moderate your forum and fund the legal trouble you might face should you get it wrong? Are you ready for the bad actors who abuse this bottleneck to take down content they don't like? I don't think many people are positioned to handle these burdens, and I think the internet will be ruined as a result.
  - davorak 6y ago
    > What I am pondering is: would this ruin the Internet? It would break most of how the internet works today. It would prevent most forms of real time, one to many, communication since a human would first have to moderate it. Best example is public audio/video conferencing. I watched a conference presentation in real time today, which had real time comments in IRC and an audio/video conference question and answer. Neither of which would have been possible if real time moderation was required. How would moderation even work for audio/video conferences? As far as I can tell it would not work since no moderation could happen in real time and allow for smooth audio/video conferencing. What if we act as a platform though and claim no responsibility for the content that happens? Then there is no ability to set topics or restrict offensive material etc so any random person(or bot since how would you tell the difference) could streaming in offensive videos or loud noise Loosing most, one to many, real time communication would be throwing out a considerable amount of value. Do you have solutions for issues like that? edit clarifying that I am taling about one to many real time communication.