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>1. Don’t wear masks False. They said - "There is no specific evidence to suggest that the wearing of masks by the mass population has any potential benefit"
by ksk 6y ago
>1. Don’t wear masks
False. They said - "There is no specific evidence to suggest that the wearing of masks by the mass population has any potential benefit"
"In the community, we do not recommend the use of wearing masks unless you yourself are sick and as a measure to prevent onward spread from you if you are ill"
"The masks that we recommend are for people who are at home and who are sick and for those individuals who are caring for those people who are home that are sick,"
These are completely normal statements.
>2. Don’t close borders
False. The said "There is a “huge reason to keep official border crossings open” to avoid people entering irregularly and going unchecked for symptoms, "
"Certain containment measures will be appropriate, but widely banning travel, closing down cities, and hoarding resources are not realistic solutions for an outbreak that lasts years."
>3. COVID is not airborne
Please understand that airborne has a scientific meaning, and that is the terminology that scientists use. There is no actual clinical evidence of the airborne transmission of COVID.It is spread through large droplets. If it was airborne, those cloth and surgical masks that people wear would be useless, so you might as well not wear them.
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>But it’s not clear to me that the WHO has any credibility left.
Maybe that is true for you, but ironically your wild accusations have let me wondering about your agenda here. :)
- gridlockd 6y ago> Please understand that airborne has a scientific meaning, and that is the terminology that scientists use. There is no actual clinical evidence of the airborne transmission of COVID.It is spread through large droplets. At this point, it's expert consensus that airborne transmission of COVID is a significant if not the major route of transmission[1]. https://www.pnas.org/content/117/26/14857 https://www.pnas.org/content/117/26/14857 > If it was airborne, those cloth and surgical masks that people wear would be useless, so you might as well not wear them. Not quite useless, but nowhere near as effective as people would like to believe them to be.
- ksk 6y agoPlease explain on what basis you are assigning a paper "expert consensus" ? Are you an infectious diseases researcher? If so, your opinion would matter more to me than the paper. I read dozens of studies every day as part of my job in biotech, and most papers are junk and/or contain overly enthusiastic claims that few can replicate. I know somehow on HN linking to a paper is seen as a mic-drop, but that is not the case in the real world.
- lbeltrame 6y agoI don't read that many studies (I'm envious you can do that ;) as part of my (science) job, but as far as I read on airborne transmission, most of the "evidence" presented is actually modeling, or some IMO questionable studies, like the one - was it Lancet, or NEJM? I don't remember - about potential airborne transmission in a hospital setting. I was left with an "and then?" thought after I finished reading.
- dragonwriter 6y ago> most of the "evidence" presented is actually modeling If the model evidence-based, falsifiable, and tested, applying modeling to a set of conditions is a way of deriving evidence-based conclusions about the likely outcome of those conditions.
- beagle3 6y ago> deriving evidence-based conclusions No, it's a way to derive evidence based hypotheses. A model that does not include a confounding variable (of which there are many) cannot give any conclusion about that variable - at most a hypotheses. I've spent some time looking at the models, all of them fail - some spectacularly so (those that inform policy much more so, unfortunately). To the point of being useless, I might say, because their stated assumptions usually apply almost everywhere, but their prediction (and back testing results) match only a small sample (e.g. a few specific countries or cities).
- gridlockd 6y ago> Please explain on what basis you are assigning a paper "expert consensus" ? The source is for the "if not majority" part of that sentence. The other part is just me making an admittedly unsubstantiated claim. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/04/health/239-experts-with-one-big-claim-the-coronavirus-is-airborne.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/04/health/239-experts-with-o... > I know somehow on HN linking to a paper is seen as a mic-drop, but that is not the case in the real world. Sure, but this is HN. You often have to source stuff just to not get downvoted.
- valvar 6y agoIt is not clear to me in what way you are refuting the first two points. The citations that you are giving seem to indicate exactly what you are trying to refute. I am very confused, and left wondering about your agenda here. :)