3 ms·

I honestly, don't think this is a fair assessment. For years, there has been a huge argument about what they should teach as far as CS goes. Logic is definite

by kemiller2002 6y ago

I honestly, don't think this is a fair assessment. For years, there has been a huge argument about what they should teach as far as CS goes. Logic is definitely important, but do you really fault a degree program and a kid's (young adult) ability on something that is never stated that way in the real world? Most people just want to graduate and get on with life. They learn what they need to pass and then move on, and there is nothing wrong with that. I put this in the same boat as all those logic puzzles they asked in the mid 90's early 00's. Ok maybe someone given enough time should be able to figure it out, but there are a lot of people out there that will do just fine at a job without being able to answer it on the spot. Bertrand is definitely in a league of his own as far as skill and intelligence, but he comes from a different era than today. I'm not insulting his age, but I do think that we need to take into account what has changed over the last 35-40 years. Things seem so much more complex than before. Even source control is complex. I feel for people just starting out these days. It's a give and take. You have to gloss over some things to make time to teach about others.

BeetleB 6y ago
> Logic is definitely important, but do you really fault a degree program and a kid's (young adult) ability on something that is never stated that way in the real world? Most people just want to graduate and get on with life. He is not interviewing people who want to "get on with life". He's interviewing people who are entering a Master's program. In most areas of engineering, and especially in CS/SW, one can get pretty good pay and make a living without an MS. So for MS and beyond, universities care more about academic rigor, etc, and whether what they learn is useful in industry is given a much lower weight (rightly so). A lot of universities really don't want MS/PhD students who are using it to get a promotion or bump in pay. Some do compromise for MS students assuming they're paying full tuition. Chances are quite high that when they take a grad level course, the professor will expect you to know this. I did grad studies in a different engineering discipline, and professors generally had low tolerance for students who did not know something this basic. Finally: > on something that is never stated that way in the real world? I'm probably biased, but I often state this in the real world :-) It has not been a problem in professional settings.
- kemiller2002 6y ago
  >He's interviewing people who are entering a Master's program. You're right I missed that. Fair point. >I'm probably biased, but I often state this in the real world :-) It has not been a problem in professional settings. The concept does come up, but I normally don't hear it this way. It comes up in different forms sure. Maybe it has, and I just gloss over not thinking about the language.
Jtsummers 6y ago
Programming is, in many ways, applied logic. Understanding logic leads to much cleaner code. People who don't understand logic make the code I've had to clean up. Things like taking a > 500 line function with a complex set of nested conditionals, pulling them all out, and realizing that it could be < 100 lines with no nesting or only one level below the top by properly placing guards at the top of the function. I have worked with programmers who have no understanding of logic, I never want to work on their code again. It's a remarkably simple skill to develop and should be part of every CS students' curriculum.

BeetleB 6y ago

> Logic is definitely important, but do you really fault a degree program and a kid's (young adult) ability on something that is never stated that way in the real world? Most people just want to graduate and get on with life. He is not interviewing people who want to "get on with life". He's interviewing people who are entering a Master's program. In most areas of engineering, and especially in CS/SW, one can get pretty good pay and make a living without an MS. So for MS and beyond, universities care more about academic rigor, etc, and whether what they learn is useful in industry is given a much lower weight (rightly so). A lot of universities really don't want MS/PhD students who are using it to get a promotion or bump in pay. Some do compromise for MS students assuming they're paying full tuition. Chances are quite high that when they take a grad level course, the professor will expect you to know this. I did grad studies in a different engineering discipline, and professors generally had low tolerance for students who did not know something this basic. Finally: > on something that is never stated that way in the real world? I'm probably biased, but I often state this in the real world :-) It has not been a problem in professional settings.

kemiller2002 6y ago
>He's interviewing people who are entering a Master's program. You're right I missed that. Fair point. >I'm probably biased, but I often state this in the real world :-) It has not been a problem in professional settings. The concept does come up, but I normally don't hear it this way. It comes up in different forms sure. Maybe it has, and I just gloss over not thinking about the language.

Jtsummers 6y ago

Programming is, in many ways, applied logic. Understanding logic leads to much cleaner code. People who don't understand logic make the code I've had to clean up. Things like taking a > 500 line function with a complex set of nested conditionals, pulling them all out, and realizing that it could be < 100 lines with no nesting or only one level below the top by properly placing guards at the top of the function. I have worked with programmers who have no understanding of logic, I never want to work on their code again. It's a remarkably simple skill to develop and should be part of every CS students' curriculum.