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OP here. Matt and I are chatting about this. We will work it out. As per my tweet, it's not about the letter of the licensing, it's about the spirit.

by tnolet 6y ago

bluetwo 6y ago
Honestly, AWS should have a policy they apply consistently. Maybe mention that in your conversations.
rmrfstar 6y ago
Not quite the same behavior, but BigCo's free-riding on FOSS is nothing new. "At Serge’s trial Kevin Marino, his lawyer, flashed two pages of computer code: the original, with its open-source license on top, and a replica, with the open-source license stripped off and replaced by the Goldman Sachs license." [1] [1] https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2013/09/michael-lewis-goldman-sachs-programmer https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2013/09/michael-lewis-goldma...
- hanniabu 6y ago
  Using open source software is different than selling it and profiting off of it without even contacting the project's maintainers.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- SpelingBeeChamp 6y ago
  Free-riding on the free? What else are you supposed to do with it?
dingaling 6y ago
> it's not about the letter of the licensing, it's about the spirit If it's not in black and white then it's not part of the license. Spirit isn't defined. To paraphrase Theo de Raadt, if you're not happy for your code to be used in a puppy mulching machine then don't license it under a permissive license.
- benjaminjosephw 6y ago
  Open source culture is so much more than the licenses. A license dictates what is legally permissible but it doesn't mean that there aren't other cultural expectations that go with that. Eric Raymond famously wrote about the customs of open source in Homesteading the Noosphere: "I have observed these customs in action for 20 years, going back to the pre-FSF ancient history of open-source software. They have several very interesting features. One of the most interesting is that most hackers have followed them without being fully aware of doing so."[0] It is possible for us to have norms of mutual respect beyond what is legally required. I think those norms are actually at the heart of open source and have been since the beginning. I hope we never abandon them just because they are "not in black and white". [0] - http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/homesteading/ar01s04.html http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/homestead...
  - pwdisswordfish4 6y ago
    It's off-the-charts irony to point ESR's observations to try to validate the author's response here, and to frame it in the terms of some monolithic "open source culture". The brogrammer devops culture in 2020 is starkly different from its forebears—the two hacker cultures in focus in CatB. In fact, the entire premise of the book (it's in the name!) is a commentary on the distinction of cultures and the risk of misleading yourself if you're not thinking clearly and make the mistake of conflating them.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - ncmncm 6y ago
    Eric Raymond is probably the least reliable narrator of a Free Software ethos that one could pick.
    - branweb 6y ago
      Not trying to troll you, just wanna know: why is that?
suyash 6y ago
Do let us know what comes out of it in a blog as there are many other people like you out there.
gowld 6y ago
You mean it's not about the letter or the spirit of license at all; it's about the spirit of plagiarism, or sociability, or something.
barumi 6y ago
> As per my tweet, it's not about the letter of the licensing, it's about the spirit. I don't understand. Wasn't the project released under a license that explicitly grants anyone the right to freely use it as they see fit?

OP here. Matt and I are chatting about this. We will work it out. As per my tweet, it's not about the letter of the licensing, it's about the spirit.

by tnolet 6y ago

OP here. Matt and I are chatting about this. We will work it out. As per my tweet, it's not about the letter of the licensing, it's about the spirit.

bluetwo 6y ago

Honestly, AWS should have a policy they apply consistently. Maybe mention that in your conversations.

rmrfstar 6y ago

Not quite the same behavior, but BigCo's free-riding on FOSS is nothing new. "At Serge’s trial Kevin Marino, his lawyer, flashed two pages of computer code: the original, with its open-source license on top, and a replica, with the open-source license stripped off and replaced by the Goldman Sachs license." [1] [1] https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2013/09/michael-lewis-goldman-sachs-programmer https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2013/09/michael-lewis-goldma...

hanniabu 6y ago
Using open source software is different than selling it and profiting off of it without even contacting the project's maintainers.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
SpelingBeeChamp 6y ago
Free-riding on the free? What else are you supposed to do with it?

dingaling 6y ago

> it's not about the letter of the licensing, it's about the spirit If it's not in black and white then it's not part of the license. Spirit isn't defined. To paraphrase Theo de Raadt, if you're not happy for your code to be used in a puppy mulching machine then don't license it under a permissive license.

benjaminjosephw 6y ago
Open source culture is so much more than the licenses. A license dictates what is legally permissible but it doesn't mean that there aren't other cultural expectations that go with that. Eric Raymond famously wrote about the customs of open source in Homesteading the Noosphere: "I have observed these customs in action for 20 years, going back to the pre-FSF ancient history of open-source software. They have several very interesting features. One of the most interesting is that most hackers have followed them without being fully aware of doing so."[0] It is possible for us to have norms of mutual respect beyond what is legally required. I think those norms are actually at the heart of open source and have been since the beginning. I hope we never abandon them just because they are "not in black and white". [0] - http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/homesteading/ar01s04.html http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/homestead...
- pwdisswordfish4 6y ago
  It's off-the-charts irony to point ESR's observations to try to validate the author's response here, and to frame it in the terms of some monolithic "open source culture". The brogrammer devops culture in 2020 is starkly different from its forebears—the two hacker cultures in focus in CatB. In fact, the entire premise of the book (it's in the name!) is a commentary on the distinction of cultures and the risk of misleading yourself if you're not thinking clearly and make the mistake of conflating them.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- ncmncm 6y ago
  Eric Raymond is probably the least reliable narrator of a Free Software ethos that one could pick.
  - branweb 6y ago
    Not trying to troll you, just wanna know: why is that?

suyash 6y ago

Do let us know what comes out of it in a blog as there are many other people like you out there.

gowld 6y ago

You mean it's not about the letter or the spirit of license at all; it's about the spirit of plagiarism, or sociability, or something.

barumi 6y ago

> As per my tweet, it's not about the letter of the licensing, it's about the spirit. I don't understand. Wasn't the project released under a license that explicitly grants anyone the right to freely use it as they see fit?