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Here in Seattle, we've built out a light rail system under budget and ahead of schedule. And of course, we've also really flubbed the cost/schedule for a highwa

Here in Seattle, we've built out a light rail system under budget and ahead of schedule. And of course, we've also really flubbed the cost/schedule for a highway tunnel. I'm not sure that the result is axiomatically over budget for major projects. That said, I'm less worried about budget than I am worried about who benefits (e.g. I'm generally ok with transit going over because it provides such a valuable benefit for the city.)

kevincox 6y ago
I guess my point that at least for the city I was talking about the bids were rarely a good estimate of the cost and time required. I'm not saying that they never make it for around that cost, but it is rare. The bids more reflected some complicated mating ritual to get their food in the door, then they deliver the bad news that the actual cost is higher the first chance they get.
smegger001 6y ago
then there is the freeway construction through Tacoma that has been ongoing for 20 years.
bluGill 6y ago
Though your system still cost several time what similar systems in other countries would cost. It was under a vastly too large budget.
- Pfhreak 6y ago
  I do wonder, however, how our environment is different. There's water everywhere, it's very hilly, and Seattle is literally built on top of older versions of Seattle. I'm open to the idea that we spent more than we should have (even if it was under budget), but I'd want to see more data about the project and where the costs were unreasonably high.
  - bluGill 6y ago
    Water is a feature of all cities for historical reasons. Hills are common as well. As for old : you a practically new born, compared to cities in Europe.
ISL 6y ago
The highway tunnel was failed execution. Between using the largest boring machine ever built and feeding multiple steel well-casings into the cutter-head of said machine, the errors were of engineering and management.
coryrc 6y ago
You have that exactly backwards: the tunnel was a fixed price design-build contract and somehow the courts held it to the original price (still $1billion more than fixing the viaduct, the benefits which accrue to private land owners downtown). The light rail was originally going to be to the University District by 2006. Ridership wasn't even close to original predictions. It's slow and will never replace more than a small fraction of traffic by design; the stations are too small, the area around them isn't zoned dense enough to bring in more more people, and there are no express bypasses so it will always be slow.
- coryrc 6y ago
  For less than double the cost of Seattle's light rail, Japan is building a 178 mile maglev line of 90% tunnels. Our cost/benefit ratios are terrible.

kevincox 6y ago

I guess my point that at least for the city I was talking about the bids were rarely a good estimate of the cost and time required. I'm not saying that they never make it for around that cost, but it is rare. The bids more reflected some complicated mating ritual to get their food in the door, then they deliver the bad news that the actual cost is higher the first chance they get.

smegger001 6y ago

then there is the freeway construction through Tacoma that has been ongoing for 20 years.

bluGill 6y ago

Though your system still cost several time what similar systems in other countries would cost. It was under a vastly too large budget.

Pfhreak 6y ago
I do wonder, however, how our environment is different. There's water everywhere, it's very hilly, and Seattle is literally built on top of older versions of Seattle. I'm open to the idea that we spent more than we should have (even if it was under budget), but I'd want to see more data about the project and where the costs were unreasonably high.
- bluGill 6y ago
  Water is a feature of all cities for historical reasons. Hills are common as well. As for old : you a practically new born, compared to cities in Europe.

ISL 6y ago

The highway tunnel was failed execution. Between using the largest boring machine ever built and feeding multiple steel well-casings into the cutter-head of said machine, the errors were of engineering and management.

coryrc 6y ago

You have that exactly backwards: the tunnel was a fixed price design-build contract and somehow the courts held it to the original price (still $1billion more than fixing the viaduct, the benefits which accrue to private land owners downtown). The light rail was originally going to be to the University District by 2006. Ridership wasn't even close to original predictions. It's slow and will never replace more than a small fraction of traffic by design; the stations are too small, the area around them isn't zoned dense enough to bring in more more people, and there are no express bypasses so it will always be slow.

coryrc 6y ago
For less than double the cost of Seattle's light rail, Japan is building a 178 mile maglev line of 90% tunnels. Our cost/benefit ratios are terrible.