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Wim Hof breathing technique can modulate immune response to pathogens (2014)

203 points by alz 6y ago

whydoineedone 6y ago
Been doing this for thousands of years in the Himalayas. They call it pranaya
- mtalantikite 6y ago
  Not sure why you were down voted originally, but yes the hyperventilating breath they use is very similar to bhastrika pranayama with kumbhaka (breath retention).
jasonshen 6y ago
Wim Hof "Iceman" definitely gives me "cult leader" vibes but cool to see this research get published in a very reputable scientific journal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaMjhwFE1Zw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaMjhwFE1Zw
- dr_dshiv 6y ago
  I get the same vibes! But I think he is almost weirdly legit.
  - windexh8er 6y ago
    I've been to a week long expedition in Poland to study with Wim a few years ago. I wouldn't go as far to say that it feels or is cult like at any point. I think the Internet, and some perspectives of those who have written about him, may give that impression. But Wim is about sharing, not bringing you into his fold and sucking resources out of you. Wim has a large personality which can work against him in some regard. I learned a lot from Wim and his instructors and I have better understanding of myself. I would highly recommend his excursions to anyone that has an open mind that's interested in learning about themselves and meeting like-minded people in the process. A couple good resources for you to check out if you're interested. Scott Carney does the best job of dispelling Wim as his original intent was to basically shine the light on Wim's snake oil in "What Doesn't Kill Us" [0] (spoiler: that is not the end result). Scott recently released a new book called "The Wedge" [1] that incorporates some of Wim but a lot of other practices and people that fit into the idea that we have more control than we realize and getting out of our comfort zone has healthful benefits. Being in 100% climate controlled perfect environments doesn't always help us. The other one I'd recommend is James Nestor's new book called "Breath" [2]. [0] https://www.scottcarney.com/what-doesnt-kill-us https://www.scottcarney.com/what-doesnt-kill-us [1] https://www.scottcarney.com/the-wedge https://www.scottcarney.com/the-wedge [2] https://www.mrjamesnestor.com/breath/ https://www.mrjamesnestor.com/breath/
- steve_adams_86 6y ago
  I think the cult vibe might come from internet sensationalism. He seems fine. He says some weird unscientific stuff, but overall I think he believes in what he’s doing with a good nature about it, and I don’t see how harm can come from what he encourages. He has a very positive message. One thing that compelled me to look into it was how little he seems to want money for his efforts. I mean, he makes money off of his name, but the iOS app for example is well made, helpful, and costs something like $2 CAD for advanced features. Admittedly the features are not exceptionally advanced, but I was expecting a higher price tag. It seemed like a reasonable ‘cover dev costs’ fee. He’s on some podcasts of course, and you can get a decent sense for what he’s like. My creep meter doesn’t go off much with him, personally. For what it’s worth, I’ve been using (and enjoying) wim hof techniques for a while and my assessment is definitely biased.
  - jb1991 6y ago
    > I don’t see how harm can come from what he encourages I left this comment earlier because it seems like there are genuine risks to this sort of thing, but I must be wrong since no one is highlighting them: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24809114 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24809114
- lpellis 6y ago
  Magnus Mitbo (rock climber) had a cool video where they tried the technique for climbing. Results were a bit mixed but still interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2SLdjmapXs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2SLdjmapXs
aaronscott 6y ago
Thank you for posting this! I rely on an IL-6 inhibitor currently, and used to rely on a TNF-a inhibitor which became less effective over time. Seeing these influenced through breathing, meditation, and cold exposure is really interesting. It would be nice to know if the changes primarily stemmed from one of the interventions they explored. Could I achieve the same results with one of the three methods for example?
- amatic 6y ago
  > Could I achieve the same results with one of the three methods for example? I don't see why the researchers would lump all three treatments together into the intervention group. There is this, seems to suggest cold exposure: https://physoc.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.14814/phy2.12394 https://physoc.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.14814/phy2...
  - aaronscott 6y ago
    Thank you for finding that. It seems like intermittent cold exposure may be the primary key then. I wonder if breathing exercises help modulate the bodies response to the cold. More oxygen available may mean better brown fat thermogenesis for example.
    - windexh8er 6y ago
      More oxygen is not the underlying science here. Oxygen saturation is almost always at, or close to, 100%. See the Bohr Effect [0][1]. TL;DR Increased CO2 aids in Oxygen delivery efficiency. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohr_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohr_effect [1] https://respiratorycram.com/bohr-effect/ https://respiratorycram.com/bohr-effect/
      - aaronscott 6y ago
        Thanks for posting this. From the wiki page: > an increase in CO2 results in a decrease in blood pH,[2] resulting in hemoglobin proteins releasing their load of oxygen. Conversely, a decrease in carbon dioxide provokes an increase in pH, which results in hemoglobin picking up more oxygen. So lowering carbon dioxide concentration (through an activity like hyperventilation) will cause hemoglobin to pick up more oxygen molecules. And increasing carbon dioxide levels will release those molecules. Fascinating.
hprotagonist 6y ago
Wim Hof is everywhere right now! This paper tests his method, discussing his performance in a citation, and was conducted by a dutch team. outside online has a profile of him right now, for example: https://www.outsideonline.com/2417379/wim-hof-method https://www.outsideonline.com/2417379/wim-hof-method I wonder what the press is about. PNAS is the real deal, anyway, but Wim Hof makes me update my priors a bit in favor of "this might be woo, watch out!"
yread 6y ago
The videos are hilarious. The guys brought plastic sleds with them up the mountain so that they can slide down. In their shorts
lunchladydoris 6y ago
I see the article was published in 2014. Does anyone know if much more has come out of this since then?
- Arech 6y ago
  I've just investigated this - yes, there are more papers published. Just google to Wim Hof's site and check a page about science (I'm not sure I should post the link). There's an chronological list at the end of the page. Most of papers are open access, but there's one blocked, so Sci-Hub would help as always.
chombier 6y ago
For those wondering about the "breathing technique", figure 2 has a link to a movie.
- Arech 6y ago
  It's very incomplete actually... I've just found this video while navigating through Wim Hof's site - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tybOi4hjZFQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tybOi4hjZFQ It's quite easy to do, btw... I'll try it for some days and see how it going to go...
throwanem 6y ago
It must have taken a lot of effort to get IRB approval for a study that tested the immune modulation effects of meditation by intravenously injecting E. coli toxin. At least I hope it did!
XaspR8d 6y ago
Folks expecting a simple lifestyle tweak be warned, the original training is by Wim Hof and in addition to the (fairly intense) breathing exercises involves lying in snow for 30min and hiking a snowy mountain, both partially naked. While participants replaced the cold exposure element with a cold shower after they went home from the training, the techniques still took 2-3 hours per day. Also on the day of the data collection, they performed the techniques right before being exposed to E coli, so they had "advance warning" as it were. Still very cool to see the immune system changes observed, since that's rare, but definitely requires a commitment to produce it in its current format.
- windexh8er 6y ago
  > While participants replaced the cold exposure element with a cold shower after they went home from the training, the techniques still took 2-3 hours per day. I do the techniques daily and have for a few years. Total time out of my day is no more than 20 minutes (increased show length and breathing exercises). 2-3 hours is not required. While that may have been part of the study - just my observation from personally using the method for a longer period of time.
athenot 6y ago
Breathing techniques AND exposure to cold. From the article: ii) During the training, subjects voluntarily exposed themselves to cold in several ways: standing in the snow barefoot for up to 30 min and lying bare chested in the snow for 20 min; daily dipping/swimming in ice-cold water (0–1 °C) for up to several minutes (including complete submersions); and hiking up a snowy mountain (elevation: 1,590 m) bare chested, wearing nothing but shorts and shoes at temperatures ranging from −5 to −12 °C (wind chill: −12 to −27 °C).
- jb1991 6y ago
  > standing in the snow barefoot for up to 30 min and lying bare chested in the snow for 20 min; daily dipping/swimming in ice-cold water (0–1 °C) for up to several minutes (including complete submersions); and hiking up a snowy mountain (elevation: 1,590 m) bare chested, wearing nothing but shorts and shoes at temperatures ranging from −5 to −12 °C These tasks sound so extraordinary to me, to the point where it is hard for me to believe there are not negative consequences. I mean, frostbite is a real thing. What about hypothermia? It seems there are serious risks to just going out and doing these things. I'm fascinated by Wim Hof but it seems the risks are not getting enough attention, unless the risks don't really exist, in which case there are a lot of myths out there.
  - steve_adams_86 6y ago
    I can see the risk, I agree. I’d compare it to running a marathon though. Not many people’s bodies will allow them to actually endure and accomplish this without them quitting and going somewhere warm. I suppose someone could go into the cold without preparing properly, for sure. There are people who do his breathing technique and breath hold until they pass out too. Again, this is usually not damaging (from what I’ve read) if you’re somewhere safe, but you’re right that people miss the point and end up doing potentially dangerous things as a result.
darth1 6y ago
There is a great discussion of this paper on Rhonda Patrick’s podcast: https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/pierre-capel https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/pierre-capel She also has a episode where she interviews wim himself.
- udfalkso 6y ago
  If you're short on time you may find these notes useful: https://podcastnotes.org/found-my-fitness/found-my-fitness-podcast-dr-pierre-capel-on-the-power-of-the-mind-the-science-of-wim-hof/ https://podcastnotes.org/found-my-fitness/found-my-fitness-p... https://podcastnotes.org/found-my-fitness/found-my-fitness-podcast-the-ice-man-wim-hof/ https://podcastnotes.org/found-my-fitness/found-my-fitness-p... Also this episode of James Nestor discussing breathing on the Joe Rogan Podcast may be of interest: https://podcastnotes.org/joe-rogan-experience/joe-rogan-experience-1506-james-nestor/ https://podcastnotes.org/joe-rogan-experience/joe-rogan-expe... (Disclosure, I work on Podcast Notes)
  - alexmorenodev 6y ago
    Thanks for your work. I really enjoy it.
sradman 6y ago
> Subjects in the intervention group were trained for 10 d in meditation (third eye meditation), breathing techniques (i.a., cyclic hyperventilation followed by breath retention), and exposure to cold (i.a., immersions in ice cold water)... Subsequently, all subjects underwent experimental endotoxemia (i.v. administration of 2 ng/kg Escherichia coli endotoxin). > In the intervention group, practicing the learned techniques resulted in intermittent respiratory alkalosis and hypoxia resulting in profoundly increased plasma epinephrine levels. In the intervention group, plasma levels of the anti-inflammatory cytokine IL-10 increased more rapidly after endotoxin administration, correlated strongly with preceding epinephrine levels, and were higher. Levels of proinflammatory mediators TNF-α, IL-6, and IL-8 were lower in the intervention group and correlated negatively with IL-10 levels. Finally, flu-like symptoms were lower in the intervention group. Sounds like the research is promoting third eye meditation rather than measuring the contribution of each specific technique. Hyperventilation followed by breath holding is what free divers do. Immersion in ice cold water is extremely unpleasant and non-trivial for most people to do regularly. I wonder how the degree of inflammatory response using this technique compares to typical activities like strenuous exercise.
- luckyshot 6y ago
  > Hyperventilation followed by breath holding is what free divers do Just a quick note that it is not common to hyperventilate when free diving since it is extremely dangerous. Hyperventilating makes it difficult to feel the amount of CO2 (and consequently oxygen) remaining in your body and easily leads to black-outs.
- ehnto 6y ago
  > Immersion in ice cold water is extremely unpleasant and non-trivial for most people to do regularly. No kidding, living in Australia as I do, sometimes even our cold water taps are hot. I would have to produce or buy ice for an ice bath every day. With electricity prices as high as they are, it is not viable.
arberx 6y ago
n=12 lol
- DoofusOfDeath 6y ago
  n=12 sounds small to me, but I don't have the statistics background to really understand its significance. Does it basically mean that the confidence intervals are way wider than we'd expect with a larger study size? If so, by how much?
  - smegger001 6y ago
    also has anyone independently reproduced the results?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
misiti3780 6y ago
I just finished the book "Breath" by James Nestor. The book was very interesting and talked a lot about some of this but I was wondering if anyone has done any research on the book,I walked away feeling like there was a possibility that a lot of it was bullshit
- pge 6y ago
  google the Buteyko method (which is the subject of much of the book). Not surprisingly, the claims made by its practitioners do not hold up to rigorous testing.
  - windexh8er 6y ago
    Do you have a source? Buteyko has been studied and shown positive effects [0]. [0] https://buteykoclinic.com/buteyko-trials/ https://buteykoclinic.com/buteyko-trials/
- michaelcampbell 6y ago
  I read it and am not 100% convinced, although I am a dubious believer in some of the science promoted by Wim. Nestor lost me when he started into the acidic diet, which has (IIRC) been resoundingly refuted.
adictator 6y ago
Isn't that the same as Prānayāma in Yoga & Ayurveda? Even today you can find many yogis in the frigid Himalayas sitting almost naked in meditation pose. These yogis have gained supreme control over their Prāna. Prāna is roughly the same as breath, but really there is no English equivalent to the word. The tragedy is that many Hindus / Indians themselves ridicule this ancient science in Ayurveda, Yoga etc, but when the same is circulated back in English or foreign context, they accept it & in many cases without asking for any evidence whatsoever. It shows a very low esteem on the part of some Indians. Why, it is not very clear.
boxfoxdox 6y ago
With the risk of sounding esoteric or self-help I have to admit that both cold showers and wim hoff breathing method have at least made me less stressed out and more resistant to cold and sudden change of temperature. It started out of curiosity while in my meditation conscious living mood about a year ago, but ended up something I exercise daily since it just feels good to me. Most notably I noticed that my legs where no more chilly or sweaty with no reason and that my hands are not as cold all the time they where before. As for breathing I noticed that I am much more relaxed on the days I do it then I don't but can't attest to weather this is just some placebo effect or not. And I notice that I feel much less fly like effects than previous years or if they appear they last no longer than half a day.
- sumgame 6y ago
  I agree - both my immunity and energy levels are clearly much better when I do practice Wim Hoff vs when I don't. Though its been only a year and a half or so.
- throw1234651234 6y ago
  Both do nothing whatsoever for me.
  - loceng 6y ago
    Do you consider yourself healthy overall? Health has such a wide spectrum, likewise does a person's self-awareness and orienting oneself when you only subjectively have your previous states to base your current health off of - so it's only when you become healthier that you realize you weren't so healthy before.
    - throw1234651234 6y ago
      I maybe understand your question - when I lose fitness, I am not aware of lost fitness unless I try to lift a heavy thing again or run distance, at which point it becomes clear. In that vein, I had decent cardio at some point, so that might be part of why the breathing techniques don't really add much to it. As far as meditation - it's very hard to draw a mental baseline. The only sort-of scientific, sort-of reliable way I know is measuring your working memory.
erokar 6y ago
How do we know if it was the meditation, the snow bathing or the breathing exercises that had effect?
drieddust 6y ago
Wim hof have achieved great things practising the ancient practice of pranayama which is actually a part of yoga. Yet he presents it as if he "discovered" it. This is pure intellectual dishonesty. Yoga's actual name is ashtanga yoga which means it has eight limbs[1]. Contrary to popular belief Yoga is not about just twisting your body into weird poses. That aspect is called ASANA and what Wim Hof claims as his discovery is called pranayama which is a fully developed science of breath control practices by Sadhus and monks for centuries. YAMA – Moral disciplines NIYAMA – Positive duties ASANA – Posture PRANAYAMA – Breathing techniques PRATYAHARA – Control over senses DHARANA – Focused concentration DHYANA – Meditative absorption SAMADHI – Enlightenment I think there is strong bias going on here in the comments. Two of the comments mentioning yogic origins of this practice are dead. So I present 2 videos as an example. First video[2] was captured by Indian soldier in -45 degree temperatures of himalayan border. Second video[3] captures another sadhu who lives naked under snow without any protective gears [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashtanga_(eight_limbs_of_yoga) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashtanga_(eight_limbs_of_yoga) [1] https://youtu.be/8Xbi4Qrf9mE https://youtu.be/8Xbi4Qrf9mE [2] https://youtu.be/FcUdEkPa-2c https://youtu.be/FcUdEkPa-2c EDIT: Second video added. EDIT 2: Major edit explaining yogic origins of this practice.
- Igelau 6y ago
  It's completely possible he rediscovered it independently, and free from the religious trappings. > Yet he presents it as if he "discovered" it. This is pure intellectual dishonesty. You might want to contemplate your accusatory nature on this topic as part of your practice.
  - drieddust 6y ago
    > It's completely possible he rediscovered it independently, and free from the religious trappings. Yes it is possible but highly unlikely. He himself claims practising yoga for years. How do you justify him never coming across eight parts of Yoga? Moreover on his website he admits similarities with Buddhist meditation but reluctantly[1] and justifies by claiming of "stripping the religious aspects" just like you. so as far as religious trappings are concerned, Hinduism and Buddhism aren't religions in Abrahmic sense. There is no creed to be followed, there are no prophets, and you don't have to follow commandments to achieve eternal bliss in after life. Buddhism and Jainism don't even have gods per say. Word Dharma comes from Sanskrit root dhri, which means maintains the stability and harmony of self, society, environment, and universe. This means there are no prohibitions but only principles to be followed to maintain the balance. Depending upon the situation same principle might suggest diametrically opposite actions. [1] https://www.wimhofmethod.com/tummo-meditation https://www.wimhofmethod.com/tummo-meditation
Imanari 6y ago
All I can say is that Wim Hof breathing makes me feel real good. It wakes me up and calms me down at the same time, its very pleasant. This effect is both physical (you feel energized) and psychological (your thought quiet down and you become more present).
leoh 6y ago
I've been using the mobile device made by Heartmath lately — https://store.heartmath.com/tech/ https://store.heartmath.com/tech/. It looks at HRV (heart rate variability) and gives you a realtime plot, thereby offering visual feedback about how my breathing is affecting how steady the time between heartbeats is. Hearthmath calls low HRV "coherence" and getting into a lower HRV state (i.e. via regular, smooth breathing; maybe 1 in/out breath each ~10 seconds) is strongly associated with enhanced levels of calm and clarity — and I would strongly suspect (though can't know for sure) that similar effects would be seen as in the paper w.r.t. the immune system. I've found it exceptionally helpful. I am on and off a long-term meditator (for about a year I was meditating as much as 2 hours a day). Some people don't achieve deeper states of calm and contentedness, in spite of meditating often (I've encountered this among serious practitioners of zen, for example; this happens to me sometimes, too) and I strongly suspect that lowering HRV would help.
- parliament32 6y ago
  I think you have it backwards, you want a higher HRV, not lower. A higher HRV is healthier. Being in a calm state will have higher HRV, being stressed will result in a lower HRV. Higher HRV is associated with reduced morbidity and mortality, and improved psychological well-being and quality of life. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5882295/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5882295/ https://www.firstbeat.com/en/science-and-physiology/heart-rate-variability/ https://www.firstbeat.com/en/science-and-physiology/heart-ra...
  - leoh 6y ago
    Thanks! You're totally right.
- jointpdf 6y ago
  Interesting. I have an EEG headband (Muse) that tracks a single composite measure of “calmness” while meditating. When I use it, the graph looks like a random walk—it barely registers what subjectively feels like a deep state of calm. I just assumed it didn’t work and stopped using it. Then I gave it to my dad, who has been an ER doctor for 40 years but has no knowledge of or experience with meditation. Within seconds, his calmness graph plummeted to the minimum value (lower = better) and flatlined. There was a brief spike in attention when the dishwasher changed cycles in the other room, then it cratered again. He just nonchalantly explained that he can control his heart rate to calm himself down, which sounds like a superpower to me.
pts_ 6y ago
Lying naked in snow will probably trigger my allergies instead of tamping it down.
mtalantikite 6y ago
The paper mentions voluntary activation of the sympathetic nervous system and anecdotally from my own meditation and yoga practice I've found that I have some control over a very specific SNS response. I'm able to control piloerection ("goose bump" activation) any time I want, something I wasn't ever able to do before and found to be quite strange when I noticed myself gaining control over it. Not exactly an awesome super power, but I have found that it's helpful for cooling the body when I'm excessively hot during particularly strenuous yoga asana practice (back when practicing around other people in hot rooms was a thing). Note: In meditation practice piloerection is part of what is generally referred to as pīti.
- renewiltord 6y ago
  I figured out how to do this and how to get chills on demand on my last acid trip. I've forgotten how to do the goose bumps thing but I just tried the chills (you know the pleasurable sensation from good music) and that has remained. Feels odd but LSD is a good tool for this stuff.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- alfonsodev 6y ago
  Very interesting. How quickly can you trigger it? I've experienced something similar but it takes long time to arrive, at least 5-10 minutes, I wonder if with practice you found exactly the state that triggers it and you can do it instantly. Also, have you felt it as in waves going up and down? or just located in same place ? And lastly, does it have any health utility?
  - y-c-o-m-b 6y ago
    I've been able to do it since I was a young child. One method is by activating the tensor tympani muscles and tensing the front of my neck from my jaw (while making a frowning type facial expression - aka make yourself look like a cardassian) - that's the best way I can describe it. There's another way that involves tensing the base of my skull. I can also move my ears, so I wonder if being able to move that muscle plays into this.
itissid 6y ago
From a sample size PoV, 12 does not even matter, because they are looking for specific phyisiological responses and correlations. Its also good that they don't have a causal hypothesis statement: > These results could have important implications for the treatment of conditions associated with excessive or persistent inflammation, such as autoimmune diseases. Because there are a lot of confounds in making causal inferences. I hope they will they do a larger N study..
- drieddust 6y ago
  Thanks for asking this question. However, sample size is pretty large. There is a whole community of Sadhus and monks practising this for centuries. This is simply a part of Yoga. Sample size seems small because Wim wants to hide his sources. See my other comment[1]. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24801967 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24801967
nilsocket 6y ago
Win hof method is just copy/paste of Pranayama and some other eastern practices. https://twitter.com/RajivMessage/status/1090320554048008192?s=20 https://twitter.com/RajivMessage/status/1090320554048008192?... https://youtu.be/tz5ndOYeErA https://youtu.be/tz5ndOYeErA
oweqruiowe 6y ago
Just tried the guided youtube video since I'm not familiar with the technique, immediately triggered a panic attack, anyone ever pass out?
Lambdanaut 6y ago
You can ask yourself why something is as it is infinitely until the cycle regresses in on itself. Like the child that keeps asking `why?`. The lie we've accepted is that somewhere beneath this pile of whys is a foundation that makes things as they are for a reason. Something solid. An un-moving axiom. That's something to consider. Furthermore we can apply `Why?` to the widely accepted belief in the axiom that our identity begins and ends at the thin layer of air that separates our flesh from the "outside" world. We can see that there is no reason for this belief other than that we have been caught up in the memeplex that we are separate individuals for so long. What are the repercussions of that? Does that imply, for instance, bending spoons with our mind could be a thing? I mean, if our identity extends beyond this flesh and can be aligned with the will of the universe, then maybe that's a thing. Maybe that's a thought we can entertain. It's becoming apparent that our consciousness can extend further than we previously believed. We can manipulate systems of our own bodies with our will that we previously thought were 100% in control of us. When presented with a consensus belief in our limits of awareness and willpower, Wim Hof asks `Why?`, and is able to extend his control further. I'm excited to see how far we will push our abilities as portals for the universe to see itself through.
- dougk16 6y ago
  Great comment thanks for putting it out here. I'm excited too. :)
- felixchan 6y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhi
- ta1234567890 6y ago
  > It's becoming apparent that our consciousness can extend further than we previously believed If by "we" you mean the mainstream western world, then you are correct. However, the notion that consciousness extends, or can extend, further than our minds and bodies, has been known and practiced upon for thousands of years. On a tangent, I've personally thought about the "infinite cycle of why" a lot and have come to the conclusion that: 1) like you point out, there is no final why, which technically means there is no "real why" for anything at all, only whatever we accept at the moment as the answer, and 2) we are addicted to using language/words - which are useful but imperfect and incomplete tools to communicate things that are impossible to fully describe with them, like feelings, experiences and consciousness, this leads to innumerable problems as inevitably pretty much every message uttered by anyone is distorted into an almost invisible game of telephone.
pc86 6y ago
Actual title: "Voluntary activation of the sympathetic nervous system and attenuation of the innate immune response in humans"
Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
Recently a user submitted, 'Make me breathe properly'[1] after watching James Nestor's talk to my problem validation platform. I assumed, upcoming Apple Watch(then) would be able to measure breathing rate (i.e. Number of breaths/minute) with pulse oximeter and EKG (Apple has a patent for this) which should solve this problem as Apple watch already had a breathe app. Needless to say, Apple Watch Series 6 doesn't seem to have this feature and I assume that the accuracy was an issue as off the shelf pulse-oximeters which claim to measure both SpO2 and breath rate do a bad job at the latter. [1]https://needgap.com/problems/155-make-me-breathe-properly-health-respiration https://needgap.com/problems/155-make-me-breathe-properly-he...
xlii 6y ago
Is it just me or is here a great amount of Wim Hof articles lately? I have this feeling that it appears at least twice a day and everybody praises it. Is it really that good?
ampdepolymerase 6y ago
The amount of pseudoscience in this thread is incredible.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
noyeast 6y ago
I follow a yeast-free diet to control an auto-immune disease. Practicing it is impossible while eating "normal" food in this country. It's mind-boggling to me how it's both "known" that yeast causes systemic inflammation via the innate immune system (dectin1/beta-glucan and many others) and it's not consciously understood by "science" that people are consuming an inflammatory substance in large quantities all the time in many forms. For instance, who knows how to avoid yeast extract, un-distilled alcohol and vinegar, soy sauce, leavening yeast? Yeast is put into vaccines as an adjuvant, yet nobody has put it together that eating it is also another way for it to enter the body.
swatkat 6y ago
Alternative title: Reseller of Pranayama. I'd suggest to check out Anuloma-Viloma, Kapalbhati, and Bhastrika. All amazing Pranayama methods and breathing exercises. Anuloma-Viloma is very easy and very powerful, helps reducing anxiety and stress levels.
new_guy 6y ago
Wim Hof is a Western bastardization of a very small subset of Pranayama, it's up there with people who think Yoga is all about stretching. Learning from the original source is always better and will yield way more benefits including 'psychic' abilities if you're that way inclined http://www.yogebooks.com/english/atkinson/1903sciencebreath.pdf http://www.yogebooks.com/english/atkinson/1903sciencebreath....
- albanberg 6y ago
  From the Viniyoga perspective, this book is incorrect in terms of the complete breath.

203 points by alz 6y ago

whydoineedone 6y ago

Been doing this for thousands of years in the Himalayas. They call it pranaya

mtalantikite 6y ago
Not sure why you were down voted originally, but yes the hyperventilating breath they use is very similar to bhastrika pranayama with kumbhaka (breath retention).

jasonshen 6y ago

Wim Hof "Iceman" definitely gives me "cult leader" vibes but cool to see this research get published in a very reputable scientific journal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaMjhwFE1Zw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaMjhwFE1Zw

dr_dshiv 6y ago
I get the same vibes! But I think he is almost weirdly legit.
- windexh8er 6y ago
  I've been to a week long expedition in Poland to study with Wim a few years ago. I wouldn't go as far to say that it feels or is cult like at any point. I think the Internet, and some perspectives of those who have written about him, may give that impression. But Wim is about sharing, not bringing you into his fold and sucking resources out of you. Wim has a large personality which can work against him in some regard. I learned a lot from Wim and his instructors and I have better understanding of myself. I would highly recommend his excursions to anyone that has an open mind that's interested in learning about themselves and meeting like-minded people in the process. A couple good resources for you to check out if you're interested. Scott Carney does the best job of dispelling Wim as his original intent was to basically shine the light on Wim's snake oil in "What Doesn't Kill Us" [0] (spoiler: that is not the end result). Scott recently released a new book called "The Wedge" [1] that incorporates some of Wim but a lot of other practices and people that fit into the idea that we have more control than we realize and getting out of our comfort zone has healthful benefits. Being in 100% climate controlled perfect environments doesn't always help us. The other one I'd recommend is James Nestor's new book called "Breath" [2]. [0] https://www.scottcarney.com/what-doesnt-kill-us https://www.scottcarney.com/what-doesnt-kill-us [1] https://www.scottcarney.com/the-wedge https://www.scottcarney.com/the-wedge [2] https://www.mrjamesnestor.com/breath/ https://www.mrjamesnestor.com/breath/
steve_adams_86 6y ago
I think the cult vibe might come from internet sensationalism. He seems fine. He says some weird unscientific stuff, but overall I think he believes in what he’s doing with a good nature about it, and I don’t see how harm can come from what he encourages. He has a very positive message. One thing that compelled me to look into it was how little he seems to want money for his efforts. I mean, he makes money off of his name, but the iOS app for example is well made, helpful, and costs something like $2 CAD for advanced features. Admittedly the features are not exceptionally advanced, but I was expecting a higher price tag. It seemed like a reasonable ‘cover dev costs’ fee. He’s on some podcasts of course, and you can get a decent sense for what he’s like. My creep meter doesn’t go off much with him, personally. For what it’s worth, I’ve been using (and enjoying) wim hof techniques for a while and my assessment is definitely biased.
- jb1991 6y ago
  > I don’t see how harm can come from what he encourages I left this comment earlier because it seems like there are genuine risks to this sort of thing, but I must be wrong since no one is highlighting them: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24809114 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24809114
lpellis 6y ago
Magnus Mitbo (rock climber) had a cool video where they tried the technique for climbing. Results were a bit mixed but still interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2SLdjmapXs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2SLdjmapXs

aaronscott 6y ago

Thank you for posting this! I rely on an IL-6 inhibitor currently, and used to rely on a TNF-a inhibitor which became less effective over time. Seeing these influenced through breathing, meditation, and cold exposure is really interesting. It would be nice to know if the changes primarily stemmed from one of the interventions they explored. Could I achieve the same results with one of the three methods for example?

amatic 6y ago
> Could I achieve the same results with one of the three methods for example? I don't see why the researchers would lump all three treatments together into the intervention group. There is this, seems to suggest cold exposure: https://physoc.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.14814/phy2.12394 https://physoc.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.14814/phy2...
- aaronscott 6y ago
  Thank you for finding that. It seems like intermittent cold exposure may be the primary key then. I wonder if breathing exercises help modulate the bodies response to the cold. More oxygen available may mean better brown fat thermogenesis for example.
  - windexh8er 6y ago
    More oxygen is not the underlying science here. Oxygen saturation is almost always at, or close to, 100%. See the Bohr Effect [0][1]. TL;DR Increased CO2 aids in Oxygen delivery efficiency. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohr_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohr_effect [1] https://respiratorycram.com/bohr-effect/ https://respiratorycram.com/bohr-effect/
    - aaronscott 6y ago
      Thanks for posting this. From the wiki page: > an increase in CO2 results in a decrease in blood pH,[2] resulting in hemoglobin proteins releasing their load of oxygen. Conversely, a decrease in carbon dioxide provokes an increase in pH, which results in hemoglobin picking up more oxygen. So lowering carbon dioxide concentration (through an activity like hyperventilation) will cause hemoglobin to pick up more oxygen molecules. And increasing carbon dioxide levels will release those molecules. Fascinating.

hprotagonist 6y ago

Wim Hof is everywhere right now! This paper tests his method, discussing his performance in a citation, and was conducted by a dutch team. outside online has a profile of him right now, for example: https://www.outsideonline.com/2417379/wim-hof-method https://www.outsideonline.com/2417379/wim-hof-method I wonder what the press is about. PNAS is the real deal, anyway, but Wim Hof makes me update my priors a bit in favor of "this might be woo, watch out!"

yread 6y ago

The videos are hilarious. The guys brought plastic sleds with them up the mountain so that they can slide down. In their shorts

lunchladydoris 6y ago

I see the article was published in 2014. Does anyone know if much more has come out of this since then?

Arech 6y ago
I've just investigated this - yes, there are more papers published. Just google to Wim Hof's site and check a page about science (I'm not sure I should post the link). There's an chronological list at the end of the page. Most of papers are open access, but there's one blocked, so Sci-Hub would help as always.

chombier 6y ago

For those wondering about the "breathing technique", figure 2 has a link to a movie.

Arech 6y ago
It's very incomplete actually... I've just found this video while navigating through Wim Hof's site - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tybOi4hjZFQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tybOi4hjZFQ It's quite easy to do, btw... I'll try it for some days and see how it going to go...

throwanem 6y ago

It must have taken a lot of effort to get IRB approval for a study that tested the immune modulation effects of meditation by intravenously injecting E. coli toxin. At least I hope it did!

XaspR8d 6y ago

Folks expecting a simple lifestyle tweak be warned, the original training is by Wim Hof and in addition to the (fairly intense) breathing exercises involves lying in snow for 30min and hiking a snowy mountain, both partially naked. While participants replaced the cold exposure element with a cold shower after they went home from the training, the techniques still took 2-3 hours per day. Also on the day of the data collection, they performed the techniques right before being exposed to E coli, so they had "advance warning" as it were. Still very cool to see the immune system changes observed, since that's rare, but definitely requires a commitment to produce it in its current format.

windexh8er 6y ago
> While participants replaced the cold exposure element with a cold shower after they went home from the training, the techniques still took 2-3 hours per day. I do the techniques daily and have for a few years. Total time out of my day is no more than 20 minutes (increased show length and breathing exercises). 2-3 hours is not required. While that may have been part of the study - just my observation from personally using the method for a longer period of time.

athenot 6y ago

Breathing techniques AND exposure to cold. From the article: ii) During the training, subjects voluntarily exposed themselves to cold in several ways: standing in the snow barefoot for up to 30 min and lying bare chested in the snow for 20 min; daily dipping/swimming in ice-cold water (0–1 °C) for up to several minutes (including complete submersions); and hiking up a snowy mountain (elevation: 1,590 m) bare chested, wearing nothing but shorts and shoes at temperatures ranging from −5 to −12 °C (wind chill: −12 to −27 °C).

jb1991 6y ago
> standing in the snow barefoot for up to 30 min and lying bare chested in the snow for 20 min; daily dipping/swimming in ice-cold water (0–1 °C) for up to several minutes (including complete submersions); and hiking up a snowy mountain (elevation: 1,590 m) bare chested, wearing nothing but shorts and shoes at temperatures ranging from −5 to −12 °C These tasks sound so extraordinary to me, to the point where it is hard for me to believe there are not negative consequences. I mean, frostbite is a real thing. What about hypothermia? It seems there are serious risks to just going out and doing these things. I'm fascinated by Wim Hof but it seems the risks are not getting enough attention, unless the risks don't really exist, in which case there are a lot of myths out there.
- steve_adams_86 6y ago
  I can see the risk, I agree. I’d compare it to running a marathon though. Not many people’s bodies will allow them to actually endure and accomplish this without them quitting and going somewhere warm. I suppose someone could go into the cold without preparing properly, for sure. There are people who do his breathing technique and breath hold until they pass out too. Again, this is usually not damaging (from what I’ve read) if you’re somewhere safe, but you’re right that people miss the point and end up doing potentially dangerous things as a result.

darth1 6y ago

There is a great discussion of this paper on Rhonda Patrick’s podcast: https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/pierre-capel https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/pierre-capel She also has a episode where she interviews wim himself.

udfalkso 6y ago
If you're short on time you may find these notes useful: https://podcastnotes.org/found-my-fitness/found-my-fitness-podcast-dr-pierre-capel-on-the-power-of-the-mind-the-science-of-wim-hof/ https://podcastnotes.org/found-my-fitness/found-my-fitness-p... https://podcastnotes.org/found-my-fitness/found-my-fitness-podcast-the-ice-man-wim-hof/ https://podcastnotes.org/found-my-fitness/found-my-fitness-p... Also this episode of James Nestor discussing breathing on the Joe Rogan Podcast may be of interest: https://podcastnotes.org/joe-rogan-experience/joe-rogan-experience-1506-james-nestor/ https://podcastnotes.org/joe-rogan-experience/joe-rogan-expe... (Disclosure, I work on Podcast Notes)
- alexmorenodev 6y ago
  Thanks for your work. I really enjoy it.

sradman 6y ago

> Subjects in the intervention group were trained for 10 d in meditation (third eye meditation), breathing techniques (i.a., cyclic hyperventilation followed by breath retention), and exposure to cold (i.a., immersions in ice cold water)... Subsequently, all subjects underwent experimental endotoxemia (i.v. administration of 2 ng/kg Escherichia coli endotoxin). > In the intervention group, practicing the learned techniques resulted in intermittent respiratory alkalosis and hypoxia resulting in profoundly increased plasma epinephrine levels. In the intervention group, plasma levels of the anti-inflammatory cytokine IL-10 increased more rapidly after endotoxin administration, correlated strongly with preceding epinephrine levels, and were higher. Levels of proinflammatory mediators TNF-α, IL-6, and IL-8 were lower in the intervention group and correlated negatively with IL-10 levels. Finally, flu-like symptoms were lower in the intervention group. Sounds like the research is promoting third eye meditation rather than measuring the contribution of each specific technique. Hyperventilation followed by breath holding is what free divers do. Immersion in ice cold water is extremely unpleasant and non-trivial for most people to do regularly. I wonder how the degree of inflammatory response using this technique compares to typical activities like strenuous exercise.

luckyshot 6y ago
> Hyperventilation followed by breath holding is what free divers do Just a quick note that it is not common to hyperventilate when free diving since it is extremely dangerous. Hyperventilating makes it difficult to feel the amount of CO2 (and consequently oxygen) remaining in your body and easily leads to black-outs.
ehnto 6y ago
> Immersion in ice cold water is extremely unpleasant and non-trivial for most people to do regularly. No kidding, living in Australia as I do, sometimes even our cold water taps are hot. I would have to produce or buy ice for an ice bath every day. With electricity prices as high as they are, it is not viable.

arberx 6y ago

n=12 lol

DoofusOfDeath 6y ago
n=12 sounds small to me, but I don't have the statistics background to really understand its significance. Does it basically mean that the confidence intervals are way wider than we'd expect with a larger study size? If so, by how much?
- smegger001 6y ago
  also has anyone independently reproduced the results?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

misiti3780 6y ago

I just finished the book "Breath" by James Nestor. The book was very interesting and talked a lot about some of this but I was wondering if anyone has done any research on the book,I walked away feeling like there was a possibility that a lot of it was bullshit

pge 6y ago
google the Buteyko method (which is the subject of much of the book). Not surprisingly, the claims made by its practitioners do not hold up to rigorous testing.
- windexh8er 6y ago
  Do you have a source? Buteyko has been studied and shown positive effects [0]. [0] https://buteykoclinic.com/buteyko-trials/ https://buteykoclinic.com/buteyko-trials/
michaelcampbell 6y ago
I read it and am not 100% convinced, although I am a dubious believer in some of the science promoted by Wim. Nestor lost me when he started into the acidic diet, which has (IIRC) been resoundingly refuted.

adictator 6y ago

Isn't that the same as Prānayāma in Yoga & Ayurveda? Even today you can find many yogis in the frigid Himalayas sitting almost naked in meditation pose. These yogis have gained supreme control over their Prāna. Prāna is roughly the same as breath, but really there is no English equivalent to the word. The tragedy is that many Hindus / Indians themselves ridicule this ancient science in Ayurveda, Yoga etc, but when the same is circulated back in English or foreign context, they accept it & in many cases without asking for any evidence whatsoever. It shows a very low esteem on the part of some Indians. Why, it is not very clear.

boxfoxdox 6y ago

With the risk of sounding esoteric or self-help I have to admit that both cold showers and wim hoff breathing method have at least made me less stressed out and more resistant to cold and sudden change of temperature. It started out of curiosity while in my meditation conscious living mood about a year ago, but ended up something I exercise daily since it just feels good to me. Most notably I noticed that my legs where no more chilly or sweaty with no reason and that my hands are not as cold all the time they where before. As for breathing I noticed that I am much more relaxed on the days I do it then I don't but can't attest to weather this is just some placebo effect or not. And I notice that I feel much less fly like effects than previous years or if they appear they last no longer than half a day.

sumgame 6y ago
I agree - both my immunity and energy levels are clearly much better when I do practice Wim Hoff vs when I don't. Though its been only a year and a half or so.
throw1234651234 6y ago
Both do nothing whatsoever for me.
- loceng 6y ago
  Do you consider yourself healthy overall? Health has such a wide spectrum, likewise does a person's self-awareness and orienting oneself when you only subjectively have your previous states to base your current health off of - so it's only when you become healthier that you realize you weren't so healthy before.
  - throw1234651234 6y ago
    I maybe understand your question - when I lose fitness, I am not aware of lost fitness unless I try to lift a heavy thing again or run distance, at which point it becomes clear. In that vein, I had decent cardio at some point, so that might be part of why the breathing techniques don't really add much to it. As far as meditation - it's very hard to draw a mental baseline. The only sort-of scientific, sort-of reliable way I know is measuring your working memory.

erokar 6y ago

How do we know if it was the meditation, the snow bathing or the breathing exercises that had effect?

drieddust 6y ago

Wim hof have achieved great things practising the ancient practice of pranayama which is actually a part of yoga. Yet he presents it as if he "discovered" it. This is pure intellectual dishonesty. Yoga's actual name is ashtanga yoga which means it has eight limbs[1]. Contrary to popular belief Yoga is not about just twisting your body into weird poses. That aspect is called ASANA and what Wim Hof claims as his discovery is called pranayama which is a fully developed science of breath control practices by Sadhus and monks for centuries. YAMA – Moral disciplines NIYAMA – Positive duties ASANA – Posture PRANAYAMA – Breathing techniques PRATYAHARA – Control over senses DHARANA – Focused concentration DHYANA – Meditative absorption SAMADHI – Enlightenment I think there is strong bias going on here in the comments. Two of the comments mentioning yogic origins of this practice are dead. So I present 2 videos as an example. First video[2] was captured by Indian soldier in -45 degree temperatures of himalayan border. Second video[3] captures another sadhu who lives naked under snow without any protective gears [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashtanga_(eight_limbs_of_yoga) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashtanga_(eight_limbs_of_yoga) [1] https://youtu.be/8Xbi4Qrf9mE https://youtu.be/8Xbi4Qrf9mE [2] https://youtu.be/FcUdEkPa-2c https://youtu.be/FcUdEkPa-2c EDIT: Second video added. EDIT 2: Major edit explaining yogic origins of this practice.

Igelau 6y ago
It's completely possible he rediscovered it independently, and free from the religious trappings. > Yet he presents it as if he "discovered" it. This is pure intellectual dishonesty. You might want to contemplate your accusatory nature on this topic as part of your practice.
- drieddust 6y ago
  > It's completely possible he rediscovered it independently, and free from the religious trappings. Yes it is possible but highly unlikely. He himself claims practising yoga for years. How do you justify him never coming across eight parts of Yoga? Moreover on his website he admits similarities with Buddhist meditation but reluctantly[1] and justifies by claiming of "stripping the religious aspects" just like you. so as far as religious trappings are concerned, Hinduism and Buddhism aren't religions in Abrahmic sense. There is no creed to be followed, there are no prophets, and you don't have to follow commandments to achieve eternal bliss in after life. Buddhism and Jainism don't even have gods per say. Word Dharma comes from Sanskrit root dhri, which means maintains the stability and harmony of self, society, environment, and universe. This means there are no prohibitions but only principles to be followed to maintain the balance. Depending upon the situation same principle might suggest diametrically opposite actions. [1] https://www.wimhofmethod.com/tummo-meditation https://www.wimhofmethod.com/tummo-meditation

Imanari 6y ago

All I can say is that Wim Hof breathing makes me feel real good. It wakes me up and calms me down at the same time, its very pleasant. This effect is both physical (you feel energized) and psychological (your thought quiet down and you become more present).

leoh 6y ago

I've been using the mobile device made by Heartmath lately — https://store.heartmath.com/tech/ https://store.heartmath.com/tech/. It looks at HRV (heart rate variability) and gives you a realtime plot, thereby offering visual feedback about how my breathing is affecting how steady the time between heartbeats is. Hearthmath calls low HRV "coherence" and getting into a lower HRV state (i.e. via regular, smooth breathing; maybe 1 in/out breath each ~10 seconds) is strongly associated with enhanced levels of calm and clarity — and I would strongly suspect (though can't know for sure) that similar effects would be seen as in the paper w.r.t. the immune system. I've found it exceptionally helpful. I am on and off a long-term meditator (for about a year I was meditating as much as 2 hours a day). Some people don't achieve deeper states of calm and contentedness, in spite of meditating often (I've encountered this among serious practitioners of zen, for example; this happens to me sometimes, too) and I strongly suspect that lowering HRV would help.

parliament32 6y ago
I think you have it backwards, you want a higher HRV, not lower. A higher HRV is healthier. Being in a calm state will have higher HRV, being stressed will result in a lower HRV. Higher HRV is associated with reduced morbidity and mortality, and improved psychological well-being and quality of life. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5882295/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5882295/ https://www.firstbeat.com/en/science-and-physiology/heart-rate-variability/ https://www.firstbeat.com/en/science-and-physiology/heart-ra...
- leoh 6y ago
  Thanks! You're totally right.
jointpdf 6y ago
Interesting. I have an EEG headband (Muse) that tracks a single composite measure of “calmness” while meditating. When I use it, the graph looks like a random walk—it barely registers what subjectively feels like a deep state of calm. I just assumed it didn’t work and stopped using it. Then I gave it to my dad, who has been an ER doctor for 40 years but has no knowledge of or experience with meditation. Within seconds, his calmness graph plummeted to the minimum value (lower = better) and flatlined. There was a brief spike in attention when the dishwasher changed cycles in the other room, then it cratered again. He just nonchalantly explained that he can control his heart rate to calm himself down, which sounds like a superpower to me.

pts_ 6y ago

Lying naked in snow will probably trigger my allergies instead of tamping it down.

mtalantikite 6y ago

The paper mentions voluntary activation of the sympathetic nervous system and anecdotally from my own meditation and yoga practice I've found that I have some control over a very specific SNS response. I'm able to control piloerection ("goose bump" activation) any time I want, something I wasn't ever able to do before and found to be quite strange when I noticed myself gaining control over it. Not exactly an awesome super power, but I have found that it's helpful for cooling the body when I'm excessively hot during particularly strenuous yoga asana practice (back when practicing around other people in hot rooms was a thing). Note: In meditation practice piloerection is part of what is generally referred to as pīti.

renewiltord 6y ago
I figured out how to do this and how to get chills on demand on my last acid trip. I've forgotten how to do the goose bumps thing but I just tried the chills (you know the pleasurable sensation from good music) and that has remained. Feels odd but LSD is a good tool for this stuff.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
alfonsodev 6y ago
Very interesting. How quickly can you trigger it? I've experienced something similar but it takes long time to arrive, at least 5-10 minutes, I wonder if with practice you found exactly the state that triggers it and you can do it instantly. Also, have you felt it as in waves going up and down? or just located in same place ? And lastly, does it have any health utility?
- y-c-o-m-b 6y ago
  I've been able to do it since I was a young child. One method is by activating the tensor tympani muscles and tensing the front of my neck from my jaw (while making a frowning type facial expression - aka make yourself look like a cardassian) - that's the best way I can describe it. There's another way that involves tensing the base of my skull. I can also move my ears, so I wonder if being able to move that muscle plays into this.

itissid 6y ago

From a sample size PoV, 12 does not even matter, because they are looking for specific phyisiological responses and correlations. Its also good that they don't have a causal hypothesis statement: > These results could have important implications for the treatment of conditions associated with excessive or persistent inflammation, such as autoimmune diseases. Because there are a lot of confounds in making causal inferences. I hope they will they do a larger N study..

drieddust 6y ago
Thanks for asking this question. However, sample size is pretty large. There is a whole community of Sadhus and monks practising this for centuries. This is simply a part of Yoga. Sample size seems small because Wim wants to hide his sources. See my other comment[1]. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24801967 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24801967

nilsocket 6y ago

Win hof method is just copy/paste of Pranayama and some other eastern practices. https://twitter.com/RajivMessage/status/1090320554048008192?s=20 https://twitter.com/RajivMessage/status/1090320554048008192?... https://youtu.be/tz5ndOYeErA https://youtu.be/tz5ndOYeErA

oweqruiowe 6y ago

Just tried the guided youtube video since I'm not familiar with the technique, immediately triggered a panic attack, anyone ever pass out?

Lambdanaut 6y ago

You can ask yourself why something is as it is infinitely until the cycle regresses in on itself. Like the child that keeps asking `why?`. The lie we've accepted is that somewhere beneath this pile of whys is a foundation that makes things as they are for a reason. Something solid. An un-moving axiom. That's something to consider. Furthermore we can apply `Why?` to the widely accepted belief in the axiom that our identity begins and ends at the thin layer of air that separates our flesh from the "outside" world. We can see that there is no reason for this belief other than that we have been caught up in the memeplex that we are separate individuals for so long. What are the repercussions of that? Does that imply, for instance, bending spoons with our mind could be a thing? I mean, if our identity extends beyond this flesh and can be aligned with the will of the universe, then maybe that's a thing. Maybe that's a thought we can entertain. It's becoming apparent that our consciousness can extend further than we previously believed. We can manipulate systems of our own bodies with our will that we previously thought were 100% in control of us. When presented with a consensus belief in our limits of awareness and willpower, Wim Hof asks `Why?`, and is able to extend his control further. I'm excited to see how far we will push our abilities as portals for the universe to see itself through.

dougk16 6y ago
Great comment thanks for putting it out here. I'm excited too. :)
felixchan 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhi
ta1234567890 6y ago
> It's becoming apparent that our consciousness can extend further than we previously believed If by "we" you mean the mainstream western world, then you are correct. However, the notion that consciousness extends, or can extend, further than our minds and bodies, has been known and practiced upon for thousands of years. On a tangent, I've personally thought about the "infinite cycle of why" a lot and have come to the conclusion that: 1) like you point out, there is no final why, which technically means there is no "real why" for anything at all, only whatever we accept at the moment as the answer, and 2) we are addicted to using language/words - which are useful but imperfect and incomplete tools to communicate things that are impossible to fully describe with them, like feelings, experiences and consciousness, this leads to innumerable problems as inevitably pretty much every message uttered by anyone is distorted into an almost invisible game of telephone.

pc86 6y ago

Actual title: "Voluntary activation of the sympathetic nervous system and attenuation of the innate immune response in humans"

Abishek_Muthian 6y ago

Recently a user submitted, 'Make me breathe properly'[1] after watching James Nestor's talk to my problem validation platform. I assumed, upcoming Apple Watch(then) would be able to measure breathing rate (i.e. Number of breaths/minute) with pulse oximeter and EKG (Apple has a patent for this) which should solve this problem as Apple watch already had a breathe app. Needless to say, Apple Watch Series 6 doesn't seem to have this feature and I assume that the accuracy was an issue as off the shelf pulse-oximeters which claim to measure both SpO2 and breath rate do a bad job at the latter. [1]https://needgap.com/problems/155-make-me-breathe-properly-health-respiration https://needgap.com/problems/155-make-me-breathe-properly-he...

xlii 6y ago

Is it just me or is here a great amount of Wim Hof articles lately? I have this feeling that it appears at least twice a day and everybody praises it. Is it really that good?

ampdepolymerase 6y ago

The amount of pseudoscience in this thread is incredible.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

noyeast 6y ago

I follow a yeast-free diet to control an auto-immune disease. Practicing it is impossible while eating "normal" food in this country. It's mind-boggling to me how it's both "known" that yeast causes systemic inflammation via the innate immune system (dectin1/beta-glucan and many others) and it's not consciously understood by "science" that people are consuming an inflammatory substance in large quantities all the time in many forms. For instance, who knows how to avoid yeast extract, un-distilled alcohol and vinegar, soy sauce, leavening yeast? Yeast is put into vaccines as an adjuvant, yet nobody has put it together that eating it is also another way for it to enter the body.

swatkat 6y ago

Alternative title: Reseller of Pranayama. I'd suggest to check out Anuloma-Viloma, Kapalbhati, and Bhastrika. All amazing Pranayama methods and breathing exercises. Anuloma-Viloma is very easy and very powerful, helps reducing anxiety and stress levels.

new_guy 6y ago

Wim Hof is a Western bastardization of a very small subset of Pranayama, it's up there with people who think Yoga is all about stretching. Learning from the original source is always better and will yield way more benefits including 'psychic' abilities if you're that way inclined http://www.yogebooks.com/english/atkinson/1903sciencebreath.pdf http://www.yogebooks.com/english/atkinson/1903sciencebreath....

albanberg 6y ago
From the Viniyoga perspective, this book is incorrect in terms of the complete breath.