3 ms·

What do you think of these cotton candy grapes? Do you grow any weird grapes? What’s cool in grape growing world these days?

cmrdporcupine 6y ago
They're somewhat yummy but bland and expensive table grapes, and basically flavourless beyond the sugar, which seems to be what consumers like, unfortunately. Still, it's an improvement from the little green unripe acid pellets that most people are buying. With table grapes, consumers demand seedlessness, which means there's quite a low genetic diversity since most trace their breeding back to Thompson Seedless. I grow wine grapes, and grow in the northeast (Ontario) so I don't grow anything like this. I grow cold hardy hybrids that trace the majority of their ancestry back to wild vines that are native to eastern North America (which is the centre of diversity for the genus, BTW). The vines I grow for wine mostly come out of the University of Minnesota grape breeding program; they are pretty bulletproof vines. I could probably grow vinifera here, but it would involve bucketloads of pesticides that I can't be bothered with. Here's a recent podcast interview with the head of the grape breeding program at the University of Minnesota, if you're interested: https://www.organicwinepodcast.com/e/matt-clark-grape-breeder/ https://www.organicwinepodcast.com/e/matt-clark-grape-breede... I have plenty of "weird" grapes here because I hobby breed. I mainly work (play) with a wild species that is rare in Ontario and around the northeast, called vitis aestivalis bicolor. V. Aestivalis is a species of grape that has lower acids, higher tannins, higher disease resistance, and more neutral flavour than most of the wild grapes -- but it's also a pain to work with because it does not propagate from dormant hardwood easily, so it's been neglected in breeding. Bicolor is its northern variant that is hardy up to about latitude 43, around the southern great lakes region. I am trying to cross it with other, more cold hardy, hybrids to produce something with the lower acids, higher tannin, and more neutral flavour that bicolor has but with higher sugars and more cold hardiness. I have a number of vines here from other hobby breeders that I'm playing with as well. High quality wine from cold hardy and disease resistant hybrids is still a "Work in progress"; growers, breeders, winemakers, and wine marketers have a lot of work to do still. But it's imperative because vinifera is becoming less and less viable every day and it's stupid to be growing it in places like Ontario. And in any case the same thing every day is boring.
- bredren 6y ago
  Thank you for this and the podcast link. Do you have a blog or feed for updates on your work?
  - cmrdporcupine 6y ago
    Nah I'm not that organized :-) And TBH still getting setup. Has taken about 6 years to get my vineyard in a state where I could do the breeding I want to do. Here's a presentation by an acquaintance doing interesting work: http://amherstcountymuseum.org/grapes.pdf http://amherstcountymuseum.org/grapes.pdf
- coldpie 6y ago
  Super cool reading your posts :) I grow five vines here in my urban backyard in Minnesota, all UMN varieties. This is their third year in the ground, and the first year I let them put out fruit. It was super fun making jelly with grapes I grew :) I haven't posted about them this year, but here's where they were last summer (year 2): https://www.smokingonabike.com/2019/06/23/minnesota-home-garden-grapes-year-two-summer-2019/ https://www.smokingonabike.com/2019/06/23/minnesota-home-gar...
  - cmrdporcupine 6y ago
    Cool, they're fun vines. I am growing about a 1/4 acre of Marquette and Frontenac blanc (a white sport of Frontenac developed here in Canada), and Petite Pearl which is from Minnesota, but privately bred by Tom Plocher (http://www.coldclimategrapes.com/petite-pearl.html http://www.coldclimategrapes.com/petite-pearl.html) I'm not blown away by Frontenac blanc and will likely take it out and replace it with another white, as the acids are very difficult to work with. Marquette is a fantastic grape overall, but the wine quite neutral to the point of uncharacteristic. Petite Pearl is low vigor, lower sugar, and small tight clusters, but it adds a nice leatheriness to the wine.. thick skins, hangs well, birds don't seem to bother with it like they do Marquette. This year I put Marquette pollen onto the first fruit off of a local v. aestivalis bicolor vine and have a handful of seeds from that. Also put Marquette onto a complex Sauv Blanc x (Aestivales x Aestivalis Bicolor) vine that I grew from seed from Clifford Ambers. Hopefully I can get these planted out next year and get started on more complex stuff after that.
Eric_WVGG 6y ago
I've got a bag of these right here. A bit sweet, but aptly named ("cotton candy grapes"). They taste eerily like cotton candy the same way that a cotton candy Jelly Belly does. Kids love them of course. The company’s "gum drop" and "moon drop" grapes are _amazing_. They also sell something called "rosé strawberries" but I haven't found them on the east coast yet.

cmrdporcupine 6y ago

They're somewhat yummy but bland and expensive table grapes, and basically flavourless beyond the sugar, which seems to be what consumers like, unfortunately. Still, it's an improvement from the little green unripe acid pellets that most people are buying. With table grapes, consumers demand seedlessness, which means there's quite a low genetic diversity since most trace their breeding back to Thompson Seedless. I grow wine grapes, and grow in the northeast (Ontario) so I don't grow anything like this. I grow cold hardy hybrids that trace the majority of their ancestry back to wild vines that are native to eastern North America (which is the centre of diversity for the genus, BTW). The vines I grow for wine mostly come out of the University of Minnesota grape breeding program; they are pretty bulletproof vines. I could probably grow vinifera here, but it would involve bucketloads of pesticides that I can't be bothered with. Here's a recent podcast interview with the head of the grape breeding program at the University of Minnesota, if you're interested: https://www.organicwinepodcast.com/e/matt-clark-grape-breeder/ https://www.organicwinepodcast.com/e/matt-clark-grape-breede... I have plenty of "weird" grapes here because I hobby breed. I mainly work (play) with a wild species that is rare in Ontario and around the northeast, called vitis aestivalis bicolor. V. Aestivalis is a species of grape that has lower acids, higher tannins, higher disease resistance, and more neutral flavour than most of the wild grapes -- but it's also a pain to work with because it does not propagate from dormant hardwood easily, so it's been neglected in breeding. Bicolor is its northern variant that is hardy up to about latitude 43, around the southern great lakes region. I am trying to cross it with other, more cold hardy, hybrids to produce something with the lower acids, higher tannin, and more neutral flavour that bicolor has but with higher sugars and more cold hardiness. I have a number of vines here from other hobby breeders that I'm playing with as well. High quality wine from cold hardy and disease resistant hybrids is still a "Work in progress"; growers, breeders, winemakers, and wine marketers have a lot of work to do still. But it's imperative because vinifera is becoming less and less viable every day and it's stupid to be growing it in places like Ontario. And in any case the same thing every day is boring.

bredren 6y ago
Thank you for this and the podcast link. Do you have a blog or feed for updates on your work?
- cmrdporcupine 6y ago
  Nah I'm not that organized :-) And TBH still getting setup. Has taken about 6 years to get my vineyard in a state where I could do the breeding I want to do. Here's a presentation by an acquaintance doing interesting work: http://amherstcountymuseum.org/grapes.pdf http://amherstcountymuseum.org/grapes.pdf
coldpie 6y ago
Super cool reading your posts :) I grow five vines here in my urban backyard in Minnesota, all UMN varieties. This is their third year in the ground, and the first year I let them put out fruit. It was super fun making jelly with grapes I grew :) I haven't posted about them this year, but here's where they were last summer (year 2): https://www.smokingonabike.com/2019/06/23/minnesota-home-garden-grapes-year-two-summer-2019/ https://www.smokingonabike.com/2019/06/23/minnesota-home-gar...
- cmrdporcupine 6y ago
  Cool, they're fun vines. I am growing about a 1/4 acre of Marquette and Frontenac blanc (a white sport of Frontenac developed here in Canada), and Petite Pearl which is from Minnesota, but privately bred by Tom Plocher (http://www.coldclimategrapes.com/petite-pearl.html http://www.coldclimategrapes.com/petite-pearl.html) I'm not blown away by Frontenac blanc and will likely take it out and replace it with another white, as the acids are very difficult to work with. Marquette is a fantastic grape overall, but the wine quite neutral to the point of uncharacteristic. Petite Pearl is low vigor, lower sugar, and small tight clusters, but it adds a nice leatheriness to the wine.. thick skins, hangs well, birds don't seem to bother with it like they do Marquette. This year I put Marquette pollen onto the first fruit off of a local v. aestivalis bicolor vine and have a handful of seeds from that. Also put Marquette onto a complex Sauv Blanc x (Aestivales x Aestivalis Bicolor) vine that I grew from seed from Clifford Ambers. Hopefully I can get these planted out next year and get started on more complex stuff after that.

Eric_WVGG 6y ago

I've got a bag of these right here. A bit sweet, but aptly named ("cotton candy grapes"). They taste eerily like cotton candy the same way that a cotton candy Jelly Belly does. Kids love them of course. The company’s "gum drop" and "moon drop" grapes are _amazing_. They also sell something called "rosé strawberries" but I haven't found them on the east coast yet.