7 ms·

Slow Ways – a network of walking routes connecting Great Britain

117 points by robin_reala 6y ago

mellosouls 6y ago
Discussion from a couple of days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24799177 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24799177
Faaak 6y ago
Why would you have your own database ?! That's what OpenStreetMap is for.
- timthorn 6y ago
  Because they're using Ordnance Survey maps, which is what walkers in the UK tend to use.
  - arethuza 6y ago
    I'd love to know what proportion of walkers have any kind of map, even in areas where it is strongly recommended.
    - mhh__ 6y ago
      OS maps are brilliant so anyone who has walked in n degrees away/with a soldier, scout, or (say) DofE walker will have used an OS map. In my experience of walking on dartmoor most people are intelligent enough to realise that they build prisons on moors for a reason, so have maps.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - arethuza 6y ago
        I wish I could be so confident - I carry print outs of OS maps as backups when walking Munros in the Highlands and I frequently encounter people who don't have maps. I've even had people ask me on fairly non-obvious Munros which mountain they were on - I gave them my backup map. Mind you they were locals so probably hadn't been raised with dire warnings about going into the hills unprepared. Edit: I notice that "lost" is a significant entry in mountain rescue statistics: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54158079 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54158079
        rfergie 6y ago
        I am very surprised by this. I suppose somewhere like Ben Nevis maybe 90% of the people you meet won't have a map and it is possible that places like this will represent a large proportion of the total people you meet when doing a round. So maybe it does make sense that you frequently encounter people without a map doing Munros just because most of the people you encounter are on Munros like Ben Nevis But the restriction to "non-obvious" Munros doesn't match with my experience
        arethuza 6y ago
        Sorry - I meant that I personally have only ever spoken to people who didn't appear to know where they were a couple of times and they happened to be on what I would have thought were slightly odd hills for someone to just wander up. In both cases they asked me where they were and I gave them a map and showed them where they were - which I hoped helped. I have spoken to other people on popular hills who didn't have maps - but at least they knew where they were (if perhaps a bit vague about the way up/down....).
        globular-toast 6y ago
        Reminds me of when I encountered people on top of Kinder Scout the day after heavy rainfall trying to navigate across the middle using Google maps. Surprisingly, their map showed a path. There is no path, even though there is a right of way. OS shows the right of way, but I imagine OS map users would know that right of way doesn't mean "path". On OSM I have made efforts to tag the physical properties of a way separately to any enshrined rights but it's hard to get right. I've used GPS to navigate for many years now. I used to carry paper maps, but you need a compass (and the ability to use it) to make it useful if you get lost in the moors or something. I just carry a backup Garmin now instead of paper maps.
        arethuza 6y ago
        Entertainingly, at least in retrospect, I made the same mistake a couple of times when I switched to using GPS - I descended the wrong ridge from a top. No real harm done but I do think GPS made me pay less attention to where I was than I would have before when mainly using a paper map.
    - Theodores 6y ago
      It is this principle of making you pay for stuff twice that goes on with the British government. Even postcodes and weather data get this tax. In the US if the federal government makes something then the tax payer has paid for it and it is therefore there for the tax payer to use. So pretty pictures from NASA and the zip code database and even weather observations/predictions are all there for the taking. In the UK the tax payer has paid for Ordnance Survey already but you have to pay for the maps and get fully extorted to use them in your own publications. There was a time when photocopying an OS map in the library for a planning application was fraught with difficulty. That is why the Google people were clever with Street View - they built their own maps and are not beholden to OS. So it is not as if the government goes out of its way to furnish the UK population with the best maps it can. It hoards the map data. It is tantamount to victim blaming to berate those caught on the dales during bad weather with no map other than that which came with the dead battery on their phone. The OS work for the crown and not the people. If Slow Ways had gone OpenStreetMap you can bet the landing page would have the map around your British house with routes highlighted.
      - arethuza 6y ago
        I think that's being a bit hard on the OS - I think they've been pushed by different governments over the years to become more commercial and hard-nosed about raising revenue wherever they can. I'm actually pretty surprised they haven't been privatised. https://weownit.org.uk/public-ownership/ordnance-survey https://weownit.org.uk/public-ownership/ordnance-survey Edit: OS maps are 'freely' available through Bing Maps.
      - timthorn 6y ago
        The OS and Met Office (and various other bodies) are established as Trading Funds. That means that they are responsible for their income and expenditure and have to balance their own books - the government pays for services in the same way that the private sector does. If the OS didn't sell its data, the government would have to pay a lot more to have the range and quality of cartographic services that are available. It's also worth saying that government departments are free to purchase mapping (or weather) services from other agencies in the free market, and I've seen OSM based providers winning contracts before. Finally, weather data is made freely available by the Met Office, but it is the forecasts are commercial. The same base data is used by eg Meteo Group for their forecasts.
    - dboreham 6y ago
      You're probably not in the UK?
      - arethuza 6y ago
        Yes - Scotland? NB Police Scotland have been urging to be better prepared when going into the hills, so I don't think its just me! https://www.northern-times.co.uk/news/police-scotland-urge-hill-walkers-to-plan-their-route-and-be-prepared-with-appropriate-clothing-and-equipment-209984/ https://www.northern-times.co.uk/news/police-scotland-urge-h...
byte1918 6y ago
How would one view these routes (now)? Or would one have to sign-up and then wait to be contacted by SlowWays?
- lol768 6y ago
  Yeah; I don't understand why they're being hidden behind a sign-up/wait wall like this. Show us the draft routes in an interactive viewer, please. The page at the moment is a glorified mailing list sign-up box.
  - timthorn 6y ago
    Perhaps it's a deliberate plan as part of the slow movement - encourage the anticipation, and release it when it is ready?
  - danielg0 6y ago
    Because most of the routes have not been tested yet - all of them have been put together by volunteers during quarantine. And, from experience, even though they've been constructed from public footpaths, that's no guarantee of their quality. Paths can be fenced off by landowners, go through cattle fields or be outright missing. Making all the routes available without at least a brief check could lead to less-experienced walkers getting lost or injured.
    - JoachimS 6y ago
      So put a disclaimer to that effect. And allow walkers to add info, status over time. Use the network effect and make it easy for people to contribute.
    - playcache 6y ago
      So a group of individuals are going to go and walk them all first?
    - ajuc 6y ago
      Waiting for volunteers can take forever. Better to gamify/crowdsource it. 1. Create navigation app using OpenStreetMaps 2. Add the new routes as red 3. Let user choose a route to walk (warn if he chooses a red one) 4. At the end ask user a few questions (how hard, how pretty, are there shops on the road, how dangerous) 5. Update the route metadata in the App 6. When there's enough data change the color to green and remove warnings You could even add average speed and sell ads to local pubs/museums/etc.
hkt 6y ago
Also worth noting in a similar vein is the National Cycle Network: https://www.sustrans.org.uk/national-cycle-network https://www.sustrans.org.uk/national-cycle-network I'd hope they're working together, to be honest..
- danw1979 6y ago
  Whilst the idea of a national cycle network is commendable, the current routes include choppy pavements right next to dual carriageways with only a grass verge separating you from 70mph traffic (A64 west of York, for example). This is neither a pleasant experience nor anyone’s idea of a safe cycling route. Cycling in The Netherlands opened my eyes to how utterly backwards we are in relation to cycling in the UK. We need behind-the-hedgerow and across-the-fields separated cycle routes where families can get to everywhere they want to go without feeling threatened by idiots in Audis.
Cenk 6y ago
Bill Bryson has a delightful book about walking these routes through England: https://boook.link/Road-to-Little-Dribbling https://boook.link/Road-to-Little-Dribbling
hoseja 6y ago
Here, have an inspiration: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_Hiking_Markers_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_Hiking_Markers_System online maps: https://mapy.cz/turisticka https://mapy.cz/turisticka (zoom in anywhere)
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

117 points by robin_reala 6y ago

Discussion from a couple of days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24799177 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24799177

Faaak 6y ago

Why would you have your own database ?! That's what OpenStreetMap is for.

timthorn 6y ago
Because they're using Ordnance Survey maps, which is what walkers in the UK tend to use.
- arethuza 6y ago
  I'd love to know what proportion of walkers have any kind of map, even in areas where it is strongly recommended.
  - mhh__ 6y ago
    OS maps are brilliant so anyone who has walked in n degrees away/with a soldier, scout, or (say) DofE walker will have used an OS map. In my experience of walking on dartmoor most people are intelligent enough to realise that they build prisons on moors for a reason, so have maps.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - arethuza 6y ago
      I wish I could be so confident - I carry print outs of OS maps as backups when walking Munros in the Highlands and I frequently encounter people who don't have maps. I've even had people ask me on fairly non-obvious Munros which mountain they were on - I gave them my backup map. Mind you they were locals so probably hadn't been raised with dire warnings about going into the hills unprepared. Edit: I notice that "lost" is a significant entry in mountain rescue statistics: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54158079 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54158079
      - rfergie 6y ago
        I am very surprised by this. I suppose somewhere like Ben Nevis maybe 90% of the people you meet won't have a map and it is possible that places like this will represent a large proportion of the total people you meet when doing a round. So maybe it does make sense that you frequently encounter people without a map doing Munros just because most of the people you encounter are on Munros like Ben Nevis But the restriction to "non-obvious" Munros doesn't match with my experience
        arethuza 6y ago
        Sorry - I meant that I personally have only ever spoken to people who didn't appear to know where they were a couple of times and they happened to be on what I would have thought were slightly odd hills for someone to just wander up. In both cases they asked me where they were and I gave them a map and showed them where they were - which I hoped helped. I have spoken to other people on popular hills who didn't have maps - but at least they knew where they were (if perhaps a bit vague about the way up/down....).
      - globular-toast 6y ago
        Reminds me of when I encountered people on top of Kinder Scout the day after heavy rainfall trying to navigate across the middle using Google maps. Surprisingly, their map showed a path. There is no path, even though there is a right of way. OS shows the right of way, but I imagine OS map users would know that right of way doesn't mean "path". On OSM I have made efforts to tag the physical properties of a way separately to any enshrined rights but it's hard to get right. I've used GPS to navigate for many years now. I used to carry paper maps, but you need a compass (and the ability to use it) to make it useful if you get lost in the moors or something. I just carry a backup Garmin now instead of paper maps.
        arethuza 6y ago
        Entertainingly, at least in retrospect, I made the same mistake a couple of times when I switched to using GPS - I descended the wrong ridge from a top. No real harm done but I do think GPS made me pay less attention to where I was than I would have before when mainly using a paper map.
  - Theodores 6y ago
    It is this principle of making you pay for stuff twice that goes on with the British government. Even postcodes and weather data get this tax. In the US if the federal government makes something then the tax payer has paid for it and it is therefore there for the tax payer to use. So pretty pictures from NASA and the zip code database and even weather observations/predictions are all there for the taking. In the UK the tax payer has paid for Ordnance Survey already but you have to pay for the maps and get fully extorted to use them in your own publications. There was a time when photocopying an OS map in the library for a planning application was fraught with difficulty. That is why the Google people were clever with Street View - they built their own maps and are not beholden to OS. So it is not as if the government goes out of its way to furnish the UK population with the best maps it can. It hoards the map data. It is tantamount to victim blaming to berate those caught on the dales during bad weather with no map other than that which came with the dead battery on their phone. The OS work for the crown and not the people. If Slow Ways had gone OpenStreetMap you can bet the landing page would have the map around your British house with routes highlighted.
    - arethuza 6y ago
      I think that's being a bit hard on the OS - I think they've been pushed by different governments over the years to become more commercial and hard-nosed about raising revenue wherever they can. I'm actually pretty surprised they haven't been privatised. https://weownit.org.uk/public-ownership/ordnance-survey https://weownit.org.uk/public-ownership/ordnance-survey Edit: OS maps are 'freely' available through Bing Maps.
    - timthorn 6y ago
      The OS and Met Office (and various other bodies) are established as Trading Funds. That means that they are responsible for their income and expenditure and have to balance their own books - the government pays for services in the same way that the private sector does. If the OS didn't sell its data, the government would have to pay a lot more to have the range and quality of cartographic services that are available. It's also worth saying that government departments are free to purchase mapping (or weather) services from other agencies in the free market, and I've seen OSM based providers winning contracts before. Finally, weather data is made freely available by the Met Office, but it is the forecasts are commercial. The same base data is used by eg Meteo Group for their forecasts.
  - dboreham 6y ago
    You're probably not in the UK?
    - arethuza 6y ago
      Yes - Scotland? NB Police Scotland have been urging to be better prepared when going into the hills, so I don't think its just me! https://www.northern-times.co.uk/news/police-scotland-urge-hill-walkers-to-plan-their-route-and-be-prepared-with-appropriate-clothing-and-equipment-209984/ https://www.northern-times.co.uk/news/police-scotland-urge-h...

byte1918 6y ago

How would one view these routes (now)? Or would one have to sign-up and then wait to be contacted by SlowWays?

lol768 6y ago
Yeah; I don't understand why they're being hidden behind a sign-up/wait wall like this. Show us the draft routes in an interactive viewer, please. The page at the moment is a glorified mailing list sign-up box.
- timthorn 6y ago
  Perhaps it's a deliberate plan as part of the slow movement - encourage the anticipation, and release it when it is ready?
- danielg0 6y ago
  Because most of the routes have not been tested yet - all of them have been put together by volunteers during quarantine. And, from experience, even though they've been constructed from public footpaths, that's no guarantee of their quality. Paths can be fenced off by landowners, go through cattle fields or be outright missing. Making all the routes available without at least a brief check could lead to less-experienced walkers getting lost or injured.
  - JoachimS 6y ago
    So put a disclaimer to that effect. And allow walkers to add info, status over time. Use the network effect and make it easy for people to contribute.
  - playcache 6y ago
    So a group of individuals are going to go and walk them all first?
  - ajuc 6y ago
    Waiting for volunteers can take forever. Better to gamify/crowdsource it. 1. Create navigation app using OpenStreetMaps 2. Add the new routes as red 3. Let user choose a route to walk (warn if he chooses a red one) 4. At the end ask user a few questions (how hard, how pretty, are there shops on the road, how dangerous) 5. Update the route metadata in the App 6. When there's enough data change the color to green and remove warnings You could even add average speed and sell ads to local pubs/museums/etc.

hkt 6y ago

Also worth noting in a similar vein is the National Cycle Network: https://www.sustrans.org.uk/national-cycle-network https://www.sustrans.org.uk/national-cycle-network I'd hope they're working together, to be honest..

danw1979 6y ago
Whilst the idea of a national cycle network is commendable, the current routes include choppy pavements right next to dual carriageways with only a grass verge separating you from 70mph traffic (A64 west of York, for example). This is neither a pleasant experience nor anyone’s idea of a safe cycling route. Cycling in The Netherlands opened my eyes to how utterly backwards we are in relation to cycling in the UK. We need behind-the-hedgerow and across-the-fields separated cycle routes where families can get to everywhere they want to go without feeling threatened by idiots in Audis.

Cenk 6y ago

Bill Bryson has a delightful book about walking these routes through England: https://boook.link/Road-to-Little-Dribbling https://boook.link/Road-to-Little-Dribbling

hoseja 6y ago

Here, have an inspiration: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_Hiking_Markers_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_Hiking_Markers_System online maps: https://mapy.cz/turisticka https://mapy.cz/turisticka (zoom in anywhere)

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]