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>>"By the way, I have noticed multiple occasions when alcoholic intoxication temporarily made generally liberal people far-right. I have even experienced that m

>>"By the way, I have noticed multiple occasions when alcoholic intoxication temporarily made generally liberal people far-right. I have even experienced that myself a couple of times when I was younger. " That's interesting. I have to think about that, never realized before, but makes kind of sense to me. I read that one big effect of alcohol is due to deactivating inhibitions. I'm quite lefty, and one main difference with people in the right of the political spectrum (I hope I'm not offending anyone with this) is that they want things to be clear. It's like they deeply dislike feelings of incertitude. For instance: do I feel a nice feelings inside by displays of patriotism? Sure. But do I trust those feelings? Not at all. I will inhibit them because I don't see them as an accurate description of reality. Maybe with a few more beers I would be more patriotic.

jlawson 6y ago
Nah, this is just you projecting your perception of 'simpleness' onto the beliefs of others. Very classic self-serving biased perspective. "They want certitude, but we can, in our superior way, handle the true complexity of reality." Lots of people believe this in every side of every ideological conflict, and it's easy to do so since very few people understand others' beliefs really; they just understand simplified caricatures of those beliefs.
- RobertoG 6y ago
  It could be self-serving (most opinions are), I'm willing to doubt myself about this too. Anyway I'm not saying anything about "simpleness" but about feelings of certitude and answering the observation of the grandparent post. Following this theory: It seems to me that we avoid incertitude when we have to act. We can not being subtle if we are in a crisis, so, maybe, it's the level of perceived thread what helps to determine your position in the political spectrum. I don't know, just thinking out loud.
- Retric 6y ago
  Being neither left or right leaning I disagree with that assessment. Both sides are filled with inconsistent hogwash, but at least in US politics the right is much more focused on staying on message. Deep down the modern right was formed from multiple independent groups so unity is what ties it all together. The left is far more fragmented and therefore more willing to bend. What’s interesting is both the left and right are actually forming a unified belief system in younger people. It’s going to be interesting to see what happens over the next 50 years as demographic forces shift the political landscape. Politicians know how to be ideology flexible, the general public adds some real friction.
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    Are you kidding me? The right leaning parts of the internet are chock full of people making the exact same complaint about the left. Everyone always assumes the other side is one block when they're not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-group_homogeneity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-group_homogeneity
    - Retric 6y ago
      Each side very much has outliers, but I am referring to the mainstream politics. Read up on how the modern Republican party was reformed and various reactionary movements within the party. It’s fascinating from a strategic and political standpoint. A striking example is the libertarian party acts like a third axis drawing from both the republican and democratic voters, where the Green Party attracts almost exclusively from the Democrats. That represents a fundamental split in the left and a more fluid political makeup. The Green Party is tiny but actually had a significant impact on several elections. Though this is mostly looking back, I don’t really follow recent politics that much. PS: Personally, I vote more for the candidate than the party. A young and living George H. W. Bush for example would have easily gotten by vote last election over Hillary, but was never going to vote for Trump. It’s like both sides looked at their primary and thought, what’s the worst option?
- qwerty456127 6y ago
  > Lots of people believe this in every side of every ideological conflict, and it's easy to do so since very few people understand others' beliefs really; they just understand simplified caricatures of those beliefs. Surely this is true. However, at the same time, many people's beliefs actually are simplified caricatures of what the doctrine they associate themselves with actually meant them to believe.

jlawson 6y ago

Nah, this is just you projecting your perception of 'simpleness' onto the beliefs of others. Very classic self-serving biased perspective. "They want certitude, but we can, in our superior way, handle the true complexity of reality." Lots of people believe this in every side of every ideological conflict, and it's easy to do so since very few people understand others' beliefs really; they just understand simplified caricatures of those beliefs.

RobertoG 6y ago
It could be self-serving (most opinions are), I'm willing to doubt myself about this too. Anyway I'm not saying anything about "simpleness" but about feelings of certitude and answering the observation of the grandparent post. Following this theory: It seems to me that we avoid incertitude when we have to act. We can not being subtle if we are in a crisis, so, maybe, it's the level of perceived thread what helps to determine your position in the political spectrum. I don't know, just thinking out loud.
Retric 6y ago
Being neither left or right leaning I disagree with that assessment. Both sides are filled with inconsistent hogwash, but at least in US politics the right is much more focused on staying on message. Deep down the modern right was formed from multiple independent groups so unity is what ties it all together. The left is far more fragmented and therefore more willing to bend. What’s interesting is both the left and right are actually forming a unified belief system in younger people. It’s going to be interesting to see what happens over the next 50 years as demographic forces shift the political landscape. Politicians know how to be ideology flexible, the general public adds some real friction.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  Are you kidding me? The right leaning parts of the internet are chock full of people making the exact same complaint about the left. Everyone always assumes the other side is one block when they're not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-group_homogeneity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-group_homogeneity
  - Retric 6y ago
    Each side very much has outliers, but I am referring to the mainstream politics. Read up on how the modern Republican party was reformed and various reactionary movements within the party. It’s fascinating from a strategic and political standpoint. A striking example is the libertarian party acts like a third axis drawing from both the republican and democratic voters, where the Green Party attracts almost exclusively from the Democrats. That represents a fundamental split in the left and a more fluid political makeup. The Green Party is tiny but actually had a significant impact on several elections. Though this is mostly looking back, I don’t really follow recent politics that much. PS: Personally, I vote more for the candidate than the party. A young and living George H. W. Bush for example would have easily gotten by vote last election over Hillary, but was never going to vote for Trump. It’s like both sides looked at their primary and thought, what’s the worst option?
qwerty456127 6y ago
> Lots of people believe this in every side of every ideological conflict, and it's easy to do so since very few people understand others' beliefs really; they just understand simplified caricatures of those beliefs. Surely this is true. However, at the same time, many people's beliefs actually are simplified caricatures of what the doctrine they associate themselves with actually meant them to believe.