4 ms·

Ive been thinking about this over coffee. If my friend said to me in a bar "tell me why computers are good" , I would have a deep conversation with him that wo

Ive been thinking about this over coffee. If my friend said to me in a bar "tell me why computers are good" , I would have a deep conversation with him that would cover different domains from philosophy to the sciences. If an interviewer for a job, requiring a specialist in 4 frameworks, 2 languages, a nosql db, cognito authentication, a complex portfolio which matches the job spec and real world examples of viable commercial products, sat me down in a room, and asked me to answer the same question, as an opener, and it was timed to a minute - I would flounder. The experienced dev vs the fresh graduate Sure I could have done some research into the several domains, written down a good short concise answer, which covered a general aspect of each domain and recited it. However I did not. I would have no reason to prep for such a question due to the amount of time Ive spent in the commercial sector developing solutions rather than rehearsing interviews like a fresh graduate who has never programmed before would do. Can I solve the problem? Ofcourse, but not as quickly as someone who has revised for it, even if I take a couple of minutes longer, it would be taken badly - regardless of whether it was rote or freshly devised. You arent selecting for a good developer - you are selecting for someone who has had the time to prepare for interview questions ( a massive red flag in my book ) The answer? Atleast for me. Is he experienced? Does the conversation flow naturally? Do you feel he is a loyal, dependable person who can clearly communicate? Well I would say that covers 90% of the issue. Hire the guy, see how he performs.

josephg 6y ago
This makes sense. But I'm still confused about your struggle to implement fizzbuzz in an interview. Fizzbuzz doesn't need you to understand 4 web frameworks and a nosql database. Its like, 5 lines of code. What happened? > Is he experienced? Does the conversation flow naturally? Do you feel he is a loyal, dependable person who can clearly communicate? Well I would say that covers 90% of the issue. Hire the guy, see how he performs. Interesting idea but unfortunately this isn't a viable strategy. There's a mountain of people who are perfectly charming but can't program, and we need to screen them out. And there's plenty of great programmers with awkward social skills who we would love to hire. A few years ago I interviewed an Indian developer with broken english, who'd spent the last 10 years working on Oracle internals. She wasn't charming or a good conversationalist and her resume had obvious typos. I had very low expectations - but when I interviewed her I realised her technical knowledge was top notch. It took both me and my boss to bat for her for the client to give her a chance. But she ended up outlasting everyone else on her team. The company we placed her at absolutely adore her now. If I didn't go deep on technical content, I wouldn't have known that and we would have passed her up.
- ionwake 6y ago
  Im going to move off fizzbuzz because I feel that I have explained my position well enough. Regarding the developer with the broken english, how long a developer stays in a team is not necessarily a good sign, the others could have left because she was hard to work with. However you said the new company liked her, so thats good, maybe she was great. When you made your last point about "going deep on technical content being good" I don't think you've understood my point of view very well. I'm not saying not to ask technical questions, Im saying ask complex ones, where possibly relating to the developers experience.
- lifeisstillgood 6y ago
  >>> Its like, 5 lines of code. What happened? I have no knowledge of the specific, but I think most people have experienced a freeze up in an interview - I certainly have. (I tried to reimplement basic math functions on a coding test - I still have no idea what happened) That's why there is no silver bullet - fizzbuzz is an indicator. But we rely on expertise to spot itself - or spot potential. Which is why we need to be careful of just cloning ourselves and our cultural biases. For example, you could put your Indian dev in front of me and I would not have the Oracle depth to recognise her as skilled enough to go to bat for. But Python internals? Yeah maybe. PostgreSQL once upon a time. Its frankly still a hard problem.

josephg 6y ago

This makes sense. But I'm still confused about your struggle to implement fizzbuzz in an interview. Fizzbuzz doesn't need you to understand 4 web frameworks and a nosql database. Its like, 5 lines of code. What happened? > Is he experienced? Does the conversation flow naturally? Do you feel he is a loyal, dependable person who can clearly communicate? Well I would say that covers 90% of the issue. Hire the guy, see how he performs. Interesting idea but unfortunately this isn't a viable strategy. There's a mountain of people who are perfectly charming but can't program, and we need to screen them out. And there's plenty of great programmers with awkward social skills who we would love to hire. A few years ago I interviewed an Indian developer with broken english, who'd spent the last 10 years working on Oracle internals. She wasn't charming or a good conversationalist and her resume had obvious typos. I had very low expectations - but when I interviewed her I realised her technical knowledge was top notch. It took both me and my boss to bat for her for the client to give her a chance. But she ended up outlasting everyone else on her team. The company we placed her at absolutely adore her now. If I didn't go deep on technical content, I wouldn't have known that and we would have passed her up.

ionwake 6y ago
Im going to move off fizzbuzz because I feel that I have explained my position well enough. Regarding the developer with the broken english, how long a developer stays in a team is not necessarily a good sign, the others could have left because she was hard to work with. However you said the new company liked her, so thats good, maybe she was great. When you made your last point about "going deep on technical content being good" I don't think you've understood my point of view very well. I'm not saying not to ask technical questions, Im saying ask complex ones, where possibly relating to the developers experience.
lifeisstillgood 6y ago
>>> Its like, 5 lines of code. What happened? I have no knowledge of the specific, but I think most people have experienced a freeze up in an interview - I certainly have. (I tried to reimplement basic math functions on a coding test - I still have no idea what happened) That's why there is no silver bullet - fizzbuzz is an indicator. But we rely on expertise to spot itself - or spot potential. Which is why we need to be careful of just cloning ourselves and our cultural biases. For example, you could put your Indian dev in front of me and I would not have the Oracle depth to recognise her as skilled enough to go to bat for. But Python internals? Yeah maybe. PostgreSQL once upon a time. Its frankly still a hard problem.