5 ms·

I wonder if there are equivalent figures in other fields that we never hear about. Reminds me of László Rátz, who taught high school math to luminaries like von

I wonder if there are equivalent figures in other fields that we never hear about. Reminds me of László Rátz, who taught high school math to luminaries like von Neumann and Wigner (whose work forms the foundation of the math behind quantum mechanics, later worked on the Manhattan Project). Then again, Budapest at that time period produced a great many other world-class scientists and mathematicians (von Karman, of JPL and Karman line fame, Teller, from the Ulam-Teller nuclear bomb design, George Polya, Dennis Gabor), so maybe there are confounding factors there.

Ozzie_osman 6y ago
Great question. I also wonder how much of it is an eye for talent vs just _believing_ in people. My guess is it's a mix. Some of the best managers and mentors I've met have a combination of both an eye for talent but also an ability to truly believe in someone, and sometimes just having someone believe in you can really turn someone's confidence, career, and even life around.
- baby 6y ago
  I can say that the quality of some of my professors completely affected my strengths today. Orthogonal to how they believed in me (which also plays a role imo). I had a very good analytics professor and to this day I can remember most theorems and I’m still fairly good there. My number theory teachers were shit though, and I’m still being affected by it today.
- charliemil4 6y ago
  There are seemingly small moments that stick with us for a lifetime -- if we had more small moments that highlighted our brilliance we'd see some incredible changes in the world. Everyone 'shows up' at some point in their life. Some march to the beat of their own drum and continue to drive from inside, while others are lost because the hesitation in 'am I even doing this right?' was left unanswered. Truthfully, this is the most infuriating thing about social media -- there are true moments of brilliance that they see on a daily basis (when someone choses to sign off, how they replay a certain section of a podcast, following links and references made in other mediums, etc) that we could be highlighting and praising... yet none of them do.
savanaly 6y ago
>Then again, Budapest at that time period produced a great many other world-class scientists and mathematicians, so maybe there are confounding factors there. For one, they were all Ashkenazi too. [0] [0] https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/05/26/the-atomic-bomb-considered-as-hungarian-high-school-science-fair-project/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/05/26/the-atomic-bomb-consid...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- zaroth 6y ago
  > The modern United States is about 2% Jewish. Hungary in 1900 was about 5%. The most Jewish city in America, New York, is about 15% Jewish. Budapest in 1900 was 25%. It was one of the most Jewish large cities anywhere in history, excepting only Israel itself. According to Wikipedia, the city’s late 19th-century nickname was “Judapest”.
  - morceauxdebois 6y ago
    Wasn't Vilnius even more Jewish at the time?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- travisjungroth 6y ago
  Bill Maher is half Ashkenazi and John Stewart is 3/4.
keiferski 6y ago
Andrea del Verrocchio might count, although (just like early 20th century Budapest) Renaissance Italy had an abundance of talent. > Leonardo da Vinci became an apprentice [of Verrocchio] by the age of 17 and remained in training for seven years. Other famous painters apprenticed in the workshop or associated with it include Ghirlandaio, Perugino, Botticelli, and Lorenzo di Credi. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_Vinci#Verrocchio's_workshop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_Vinci#Verrocchio's...
- ponker 6y ago
  For 5 superstars I can imagine an “abundance of talent” as a random event. But for 50 it’s not — it’s a culture that for some reason has created the conditions for these superstars to emerge and it’s worth analyzing what those conditions are.
  - keiferski 6y ago
    I didn't mean anything specific by abundance of talent. Just an expression. Of course, the Renaissance had unique historical conditions that led to its artistic flourishing.
sn41 6y ago
First, Hungary was part of the largest country in Europe at that time (ignoring Russia, which also had a huge Asiatic part), the Austro-Hungarian empire, so it was a cultural and intellectual center. There is also the legacy of the famous Eötvös competition, started by Baron Loránd Eötvös, which inspired the math Olympiad. Winners of the competition include Teller, Leo Szilard, von Karman, … So this emergence was hardly a coincidence. Hungary at the turn of the 20th century was well poised to create the intellectual legacy it had in math and physics in the coming 100 years: http://www.batmath.it/matematica/raccolte_es/ek_competitions/ek_competitions.pdf http://www.batmath.it/matematica/raccolte_es/ek_competitions... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loránd_Eötvös https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loránd_Eötvös
defen 6y ago
Ernie Adams - Bill Belichick's football brain. He's probably a somewhat big part of the reason the Pats have been so successful for so long with other teams' "cast offs".
polytely 6y ago
Joe Satriani was the guitar teacher of a lot of famous guitarists: "His students included Steve Vai, Kirk Hammett of Metallica, David Bryson of Counting Crows, Kevin Cadogan from Third Eye Blind, Larry LaLonde of Primus and Possessed, Alex Skolnick of Testament, Rick Hunolt (ex-Exodus), Phil Kettner of Lȧȧz Rockit, Geoff Tyson of T-Ride, Charlie Hunter and David Turin." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Satriani https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Satriani
- buddhiajuke 6y ago
  > Charlie Hunter One of these men are not like the others.
  - tcbawo 6y ago
    I hadn't heard of Charlie Hunter before, but he appears to be quite talented. Apparently, he's known for playing custom guitars with 7 or 8 strings, with simultaneous guitar and a bass parts. This is the first video I pulled up on YouTube: https://youtu.be/La2gmwSQJo0?t=83 https://youtu.be/La2gmwSQJo0?t=83 Check out the fret arrangement on his guitar.
petercooper 6y ago
I think there are millions of people like that to various degrees, whether as individuals or as members of supportive communities or societies. Like many, I've shone the spotlight on or helped many eventually successful people and it's part of "being involved" and using your influence for good whether you're a teacher, coworker, publisher, influencer, or even just voting up posts on HN :-) We all stand "on the shoulders of giants" but I suspect most successful people are stood on hundreds of giants rather than single pivotal figures.
zupatol 6y ago
Charles Gleyre was the teacher of Monet, Renoir, Sisley, Whistler and many others. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Gleyre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Gleyre
totemandtoken 6y ago
A lot of the other comments are describing teachers who went on to have successful or talented students, much like the parent. Consider the inverse case, which probably sounds out of left field to you - the cult leader. Many cults start out with self-help gurus or educators who create closed groups with high demands. Cult leaders often promise special abilities to their students, if they just stick with them. The results are pretty much the opposite of what the parent is describing - the members are lost history and often don't achieve much and the narcissism of the cult leader defines the group. Unlike what the OP is describing - the proper teacher is more or less obscure and the network of students all go onto achieve highly. I guess this is just a long, roundabout way to say that humility and skill amplify much farther than even genuine skill and charisma. Maybe there's something to also be said about the altruism of a good teacher versus the high-demands of a cultic following.

Ozzie_osman 6y ago

Great question. I also wonder how much of it is an eye for talent vs just _believing_ in people. My guess is it's a mix. Some of the best managers and mentors I've met have a combination of both an eye for talent but also an ability to truly believe in someone, and sometimes just having someone believe in you can really turn someone's confidence, career, and even life around.

baby 6y ago
I can say that the quality of some of my professors completely affected my strengths today. Orthogonal to how they believed in me (which also plays a role imo). I had a very good analytics professor and to this day I can remember most theorems and I’m still fairly good there. My number theory teachers were shit though, and I’m still being affected by it today.
charliemil4 6y ago
There are seemingly small moments that stick with us for a lifetime -- if we had more small moments that highlighted our brilliance we'd see some incredible changes in the world. Everyone 'shows up' at some point in their life. Some march to the beat of their own drum and continue to drive from inside, while others are lost because the hesitation in 'am I even doing this right?' was left unanswered. Truthfully, this is the most infuriating thing about social media -- there are true moments of brilliance that they see on a daily basis (when someone choses to sign off, how they replay a certain section of a podcast, following links and references made in other mediums, etc) that we could be highlighting and praising... yet none of them do.

savanaly 6y ago

>Then again, Budapest at that time period produced a great many other world-class scientists and mathematicians, so maybe there are confounding factors there. For one, they were all Ashkenazi too. [0] [0] https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/05/26/the-atomic-bomb-considered-as-hungarian-high-school-science-fair-project/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/05/26/the-atomic-bomb-consid...

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
zaroth 6y ago
> The modern United States is about 2% Jewish. Hungary in 1900 was about 5%. The most Jewish city in America, New York, is about 15% Jewish. Budapest in 1900 was 25%. It was one of the most Jewish large cities anywhere in history, excepting only Israel itself. According to Wikipedia, the city’s late 19th-century nickname was “Judapest”.
- morceauxdebois 6y ago
  Wasn't Vilnius even more Jewish at the time?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
travisjungroth 6y ago
Bill Maher is half Ashkenazi and John Stewart is 3/4.

keiferski 6y ago

Andrea del Verrocchio might count, although (just like early 20th century Budapest) Renaissance Italy had an abundance of talent. > Leonardo da Vinci became an apprentice [of Verrocchio] by the age of 17 and remained in training for seven years. Other famous painters apprenticed in the workshop or associated with it include Ghirlandaio, Perugino, Botticelli, and Lorenzo di Credi. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_Vinci#Verrocchio's_workshop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_Vinci#Verrocchio's...

ponker 6y ago
For 5 superstars I can imagine an “abundance of talent” as a random event. But for 50 it’s not — it’s a culture that for some reason has created the conditions for these superstars to emerge and it’s worth analyzing what those conditions are.
- keiferski 6y ago
  I didn't mean anything specific by abundance of talent. Just an expression. Of course, the Renaissance had unique historical conditions that led to its artistic flourishing.

sn41 6y ago

First, Hungary was part of the largest country in Europe at that time (ignoring Russia, which also had a huge Asiatic part), the Austro-Hungarian empire, so it was a cultural and intellectual center. There is also the legacy of the famous Eötvös competition, started by Baron Loránd Eötvös, which inspired the math Olympiad. Winners of the competition include Teller, Leo Szilard, von Karman, … So this emergence was hardly a coincidence. Hungary at the turn of the 20th century was well poised to create the intellectual legacy it had in math and physics in the coming 100 years: http://www.batmath.it/matematica/raccolte_es/ek_competitions/ek_competitions.pdf http://www.batmath.it/matematica/raccolte_es/ek_competitions... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loránd_Eötvös https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loránd_Eötvös

defen 6y ago

Ernie Adams - Bill Belichick's football brain. He's probably a somewhat big part of the reason the Pats have been so successful for so long with other teams' "cast offs".

polytely 6y ago

Joe Satriani was the guitar teacher of a lot of famous guitarists: "His students included Steve Vai, Kirk Hammett of Metallica, David Bryson of Counting Crows, Kevin Cadogan from Third Eye Blind, Larry LaLonde of Primus and Possessed, Alex Skolnick of Testament, Rick Hunolt (ex-Exodus), Phil Kettner of Lȧȧz Rockit, Geoff Tyson of T-Ride, Charlie Hunter and David Turin." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Satriani https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Satriani

buddhiajuke 6y ago
> Charlie Hunter One of these men are not like the others.
- tcbawo 6y ago
  I hadn't heard of Charlie Hunter before, but he appears to be quite talented. Apparently, he's known for playing custom guitars with 7 or 8 strings, with simultaneous guitar and a bass parts. This is the first video I pulled up on YouTube: https://youtu.be/La2gmwSQJo0?t=83 https://youtu.be/La2gmwSQJo0?t=83 Check out the fret arrangement on his guitar.

petercooper 6y ago

I think there are millions of people like that to various degrees, whether as individuals or as members of supportive communities or societies. Like many, I've shone the spotlight on or helped many eventually successful people and it's part of "being involved" and using your influence for good whether you're a teacher, coworker, publisher, influencer, or even just voting up posts on HN :-) We all stand "on the shoulders of giants" but I suspect most successful people are stood on hundreds of giants rather than single pivotal figures.

zupatol 6y ago

Charles Gleyre was the teacher of Monet, Renoir, Sisley, Whistler and many others. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Gleyre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Gleyre

totemandtoken 6y ago

A lot of the other comments are describing teachers who went on to have successful or talented students, much like the parent. Consider the inverse case, which probably sounds out of left field to you - the cult leader. Many cults start out with self-help gurus or educators who create closed groups with high demands. Cult leaders often promise special abilities to their students, if they just stick with them. The results are pretty much the opposite of what the parent is describing - the members are lost history and often don't achieve much and the narcissism of the cult leader defines the group. Unlike what the OP is describing - the proper teacher is more or less obscure and the network of students all go onto achieve highly. I guess this is just a long, roundabout way to say that humility and skill amplify much farther than even genuine skill and charisma. Maybe there's something to also be said about the altruism of a good teacher versus the high-demands of a cultic following.