6 ms·

I will admit that aiding and abetting is a gray area, but we are all subject to the laws of countries that we decide to travel to or associate with. If it is tr

I will admit that aiding and abetting is a gray area, but we are all subject to the laws of countries that we decide to travel to or associate with. If it is true that Assange attempted to solicit classified information and did not simply act as a neutral publisher for a whistleblower, then charging him would fall pretty well in line with both the letter and spirit of the espionage act.

free_rms 6y ago
If a US citizen blew a whistle on some abuse in Russia or China, would you be in favor of handing them over to be tried by local authorities? How much of this argument relies on "we are the good guys of history, so we get carte blanche and if you disagree you are bad"?
- slg 6y ago
  We don't have extradition treaties with those countries so that hypothetical would never happen. It is the same reason that Snowden isn't facing trial in Russia. Part of being a "good guy" is standing by your word. We have extradition treaties with the UK. Unless there is some belief that the wanted person couldn't get a fair trial in the UK, we would follow the same process that they are putting Assange through.
  - cycomanic 6y ago
    You do know that the US has not joined the Rome treaty (which establishes the International Criminal court) and one of the arguments being is that it would allow the trial of Americans who have committed crimes on American soil which is unconstitutional. The US has also be threatening that they would invade the Netherlands to free held American personal. Sounds to me not much like a good guy, but more like a bully saying "do as I say not as I do" .
- kickopotomus 6y ago
  But there’s the problem right there. Your analogy is incongruent with the Assange case. Assange is not a whistleblower. Again, if Assange merely published information that he was given (unsolicited), then he should be protected by the first amendment and is not guilty of a crime. However, if he sought out classified information and instructed someone on how to exfiltrate that information, then he clearly broke US espionage laws.
  - free_rms 6y ago
    Again, he's not American. Also, "sought out information".. you're gonna take that as an exception for rights of the press? No publishing about watergate if the editor and journalist "sought out" the information?
    - kickopotomus 6y ago
      > Again, he's not American. What is your point? Espionage laws are typically intended for foreign nationals. > Also, "sought out information".. you're gonna take that as an exception for rights of the press? No publishing about watergate if the editor and journalist "sought out" the information? The press has the right to publish classified information as long as they are solely publishing the information and do not partake in accessing or gathering that information. This was the finding of the Supreme Court in NYT vs US[1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times_Co._v._United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times_Co._v._United_S...

free_rms 6y ago

If a US citizen blew a whistle on some abuse in Russia or China, would you be in favor of handing them over to be tried by local authorities? How much of this argument relies on "we are the good guys of history, so we get carte blanche and if you disagree you are bad"?

slg 6y ago
We don't have extradition treaties with those countries so that hypothetical would never happen. It is the same reason that Snowden isn't facing trial in Russia. Part of being a "good guy" is standing by your word. We have extradition treaties with the UK. Unless there is some belief that the wanted person couldn't get a fair trial in the UK, we would follow the same process that they are putting Assange through.
- cycomanic 6y ago
  You do know that the US has not joined the Rome treaty (which establishes the International Criminal court) and one of the arguments being is that it would allow the trial of Americans who have committed crimes on American soil which is unconstitutional. The US has also be threatening that they would invade the Netherlands to free held American personal. Sounds to me not much like a good guy, but more like a bully saying "do as I say not as I do" .
kickopotomus 6y ago
But there’s the problem right there. Your analogy is incongruent with the Assange case. Assange is not a whistleblower. Again, if Assange merely published information that he was given (unsolicited), then he should be protected by the first amendment and is not guilty of a crime. However, if he sought out classified information and instructed someone on how to exfiltrate that information, then he clearly broke US espionage laws.
- free_rms 6y ago
  Again, he's not American. Also, "sought out information".. you're gonna take that as an exception for rights of the press? No publishing about watergate if the editor and journalist "sought out" the information?
  - kickopotomus 6y ago
    > Again, he's not American. What is your point? Espionage laws are typically intended for foreign nationals. > Also, "sought out information".. you're gonna take that as an exception for rights of the press? No publishing about watergate if the editor and journalist "sought out" the information? The press has the right to publish classified information as long as they are solely publishing the information and do not partake in accessing or gathering that information. This was the finding of the Supreme Court in NYT vs US[1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times_Co._v._United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times_Co._v._United_S...