4 ms·

>"The PDP-11/45 on which our UNIX installation is implemented is a 16-bit word (8-bit byte) computer with 144 Kbytes of core memory; UNIX occupies 42K bytes."

>"The PDP-11/45 on which our UNIX installation is implemented is a 16-bit word (8-bit byte) computer with 144 Kbytes of core memory; UNIX occupies 42K bytes." Compare that to Ubuntu's requirements in 2020: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SystemRequirements https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SystemRequire... >"Ubuntu Desktop Edition o 2 GHz dual core processor o 4 GB RAM (system memory) o 25 GB of hard-drive space (or USB stick, memory card or external drive but see LiveCD for an alternative approach) o VGA capable of 1024x768 screen resolution o Either a CD/DVD drive or a USB port for the installer media o Internet access is helpful"

tannhaeuser 6y ago
The elephant in the room is more, like, the conceptual simplicity, interface stability, and portability compared to the never-ending proliferation of Linux kludges ^H^H^H innovations turning out to bring as much problems as they're trying to solve, or more eg https://lwn.net/Articles/679786/ https://lwn.net/Articles/679786/
Waterluvian 6y ago
I doubt a PDP-11 will handle an AMD graphics card upgrade then.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  It hardly makes a difference to running CLI with screen, bash and vim.
  - spongeb00b 6y ago
    The real overhead now is in interfacing: your CLI screen still needs to output (probably) VGA graphics, you'll need USB host support, wired and wireless networking, more sophisticated file systems...
    - pjmlp 6y ago
      From my point of view that is still kind of catching up with big iron UNIX and mainframes, revienting many of their ideas that were already a thing in the late 90's. For example, my first experience with containers was with HP-UX Vault, likewise for most fancy filesystems that GNU/Linux might be getting.
musicale 6y ago
Linux distributions might be a lot smaller if a) the kernel only included drivers for a single hardware platform, single file system, text terminals, and no network devices or protocols, b) /usr/lib only included libc, and c) everything was still 32-bit. There are certainly examples of very compact Unix-like OSes that nonetheless offer memory protection, paging/virtual memory, preemptive multitasking, and a system call interface.
- msla 6y ago
  > Linux distributions might be a lot smaller if a) the kernel only included drivers for a single hardware platform, single file system, text terminals, and no network devices or protocols, b) /usr/lib only included libc, and c) everything was still 32-bit. As for that last: The PDP-11 was a 16-bit architecture, which got somewhat interesting to work with when software began to grow functionality beyond what would comfortably fit in that address space. The 32-bit PDP-11 was going to be called the Virtual Address Extension, or the VAX; instead, the VAX was turned into a machine rather more elaborate than a "better PDP-11".
mushufasa 6y ago
better comparison would be ubuntu server edition (no gui) 1 GHz CPU 512 MB RAM (system memory) 2.5 GB hard drive
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
zaptheimpaler 6y ago
Now try comparing the capabilities of UNIX on PDP to Ubuntu on a modern desktop as well
- pjmlp 6y ago
  It hardly makes a difference, given how many seem to enjoy tailoring their octa core laptop with HiDPI screen to look like a PDP developer experience.
taneliv 6y ago
Perhaps something like this is closer in functionality: "Sufficient Flash to accommodate OpenWrt firmware image * 4MB min (won't be able to install GUI (LuCI)) * 8MB better (will fit GUI and some other applications) Sufficient RAM for stable operation * 32MB min, 64MB better" (Directly from https://openwrt.org/supported_devices https://openwrt.org/supported_devices) Still a few magnitudes more than the PDP-11/45, though.

tannhaeuser 6y ago

The elephant in the room is more, like, the conceptual simplicity, interface stability, and portability compared to the never-ending proliferation of Linux kludges ^H^H^H innovations turning out to bring as much problems as they're trying to solve, or more eg https://lwn.net/Articles/679786/ https://lwn.net/Articles/679786/

Waterluvian 6y ago

I doubt a PDP-11 will handle an AMD graphics card upgrade then.

pjmlp 6y ago
It hardly makes a difference to running CLI with screen, bash and vim.
- spongeb00b 6y ago
  The real overhead now is in interfacing: your CLI screen still needs to output (probably) VGA graphics, you'll need USB host support, wired and wireless networking, more sophisticated file systems...
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    From my point of view that is still kind of catching up with big iron UNIX and mainframes, revienting many of their ideas that were already a thing in the late 90's. For example, my first experience with containers was with HP-UX Vault, likewise for most fancy filesystems that GNU/Linux might be getting.

musicale 6y ago

Linux distributions might be a lot smaller if a) the kernel only included drivers for a single hardware platform, single file system, text terminals, and no network devices or protocols, b) /usr/lib only included libc, and c) everything was still 32-bit. There are certainly examples of very compact Unix-like OSes that nonetheless offer memory protection, paging/virtual memory, preemptive multitasking, and a system call interface.

msla 6y ago
> Linux distributions might be a lot smaller if a) the kernel only included drivers for a single hardware platform, single file system, text terminals, and no network devices or protocols, b) /usr/lib only included libc, and c) everything was still 32-bit. As for that last: The PDP-11 was a 16-bit architecture, which got somewhat interesting to work with when software began to grow functionality beyond what would comfortably fit in that address space. The 32-bit PDP-11 was going to be called the Virtual Address Extension, or the VAX; instead, the VAX was turned into a machine rather more elaborate than a "better PDP-11".

mushufasa 6y ago

better comparison would be ubuntu server edition (no gui) 1 GHz CPU 512 MB RAM (system memory) 2.5 GB hard drive

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

zaptheimpaler 6y ago

Now try comparing the capabilities of UNIX on PDP to Ubuntu on a modern desktop as well

pjmlp 6y ago
It hardly makes a difference, given how many seem to enjoy tailoring their octa core laptop with HiDPI screen to look like a PDP developer experience.

taneliv 6y ago

Perhaps something like this is closer in functionality: "Sufficient Flash to accommodate OpenWrt firmware image * 4MB min (won't be able to install GUI (LuCI)) * 8MB better (will fit GUI and some other applications) Sufficient RAM for stable operation * 32MB min, 64MB better" (Directly from https://openwrt.org/supported_devices https://openwrt.org/supported_devices) Still a few magnitudes more than the PDP-11/45, though.