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There is absolutely speech that is violence, and it is typically not protected by free speech. Harassment, yelling "fire" in a crowded theater, calling for lite

There is absolutely speech that is violence, and it is typically not protected by free speech. Harassment, yelling "fire" in a crowded theater, calling for literal violence against others, these are allowed to be regulated (in the US) and understood broadly to be dangerous.

lawnchair_larry 6y ago
No, speech is not violence, full stop. It never has been, and it’s a mistake to even tolerate this new definition. Think about it. How can calling for violence be violence? The violence is the violence, the calling for it is incitement. Redefining terms like this is nothing more than subverting the truth to control a narrative.
- montagg 6y ago
  Then you're going against a hundred years of legal thought on free speech there. There's a reason certain speech is not protected, and it's been hashed out. if you have a better legal argument than "it's just not," I'm interested, but it needs to address why previous thinking is incorrect. Edit: a [quick link][1] to all the types of speech in the US that is regulated and why. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_in_the_United_States#Types_of_speech_restrictions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_in_the_Unite...
  - sethammons 6y ago
    Searched for 'violence' and derivative forms in that wiki link: > limitations on free speech balance rights to free speech and other rights, such as rights for ... protection from imminent or potential violence against particular persons. The speech is not violent. However, we can say that speech that promotes such might not be allowed under "free speech." Yelling "fire" in a crowded theater is not violent though it can cause people to panic and cause harm.
  - lawnchair_larry 6y ago
    What does this have to do with what I said? Why do you think I said anything about what is protected? We are arguing about the definition of the word violence.
- scsilver 6y ago
  Why is violence your line? What makes violence unacceptable but verbal harassment, abuses, bad faith arguments are deemed acceptable. Honest question that I'm still not settled on. What I still believe is that society should be the one managing this boundary area, and the state should stick to it's defined rules on free speech. People should be able to boycot people, free enterprises should he able to manage their media channels, the state should not.
  - sethammons 6y ago
    I've been called names and threatened, and I've been attacked. I know which one I consider violent actually physically dangerous vs stressful :)
  - lawnchair_larry 6y ago
    Who said violence is my line? Who said anything about what is and isn’t acceptable? Where are you getting this from? We are arguing over what the word violence means. I didn’t make any other claims.
airtonix 6y ago
you're wrong.
heartbeats 6y ago
>Harassment That is not regulated in the capacity of speech. >yelling "fire" in a crowded theater That line is from a 1919 court case about whether you could oppose the draft. >calling for literal violence against others This is permitted under Brandenburg v. Ohio. Calls to illegal action are only prohibited if they are (1) intended to cause illegal action, (2) reasonably likely to produce such action and (3) imminent.
dahfizz 6y ago
Where does this idea come from that unprotected speech == violence? Perjury is not protected speech, do you think that is violent? Violence is fundamentally a physical thing. Incitements to violence and threats of violence are bad, but they are not the same thing as violence.

lawnchair_larry 6y ago

No, speech is not violence, full stop. It never has been, and it’s a mistake to even tolerate this new definition. Think about it. How can calling for violence be violence? The violence is the violence, the calling for it is incitement. Redefining terms like this is nothing more than subverting the truth to control a narrative.

montagg 6y ago
Then you're going against a hundred years of legal thought on free speech there. There's a reason certain speech is not protected, and it's been hashed out. if you have a better legal argument than "it's just not," I'm interested, but it needs to address why previous thinking is incorrect. Edit: a [quick link][1] to all the types of speech in the US that is regulated and why. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_in_the_United_States#Types_of_speech_restrictions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_in_the_Unite...
- sethammons 6y ago
  Searched for 'violence' and derivative forms in that wiki link: > limitations on free speech balance rights to free speech and other rights, such as rights for ... protection from imminent or potential violence against particular persons. The speech is not violent. However, we can say that speech that promotes such might not be allowed under "free speech." Yelling "fire" in a crowded theater is not violent though it can cause people to panic and cause harm.
- lawnchair_larry 6y ago
  What does this have to do with what I said? Why do you think I said anything about what is protected? We are arguing about the definition of the word violence.
scsilver 6y ago
Why is violence your line? What makes violence unacceptable but verbal harassment, abuses, bad faith arguments are deemed acceptable. Honest question that I'm still not settled on. What I still believe is that society should be the one managing this boundary area, and the state should stick to it's defined rules on free speech. People should be able to boycot people, free enterprises should he able to manage their media channels, the state should not.
- sethammons 6y ago
  I've been called names and threatened, and I've been attacked. I know which one I consider violent actually physically dangerous vs stressful :)
- lawnchair_larry 6y ago
  Who said violence is my line? Who said anything about what is and isn’t acceptable? Where are you getting this from? We are arguing over what the word violence means. I didn’t make any other claims.

airtonix 6y ago

you're wrong.

heartbeats 6y ago

>Harassment That is not regulated in the capacity of speech. >yelling "fire" in a crowded theater That line is from a 1919 court case about whether you could oppose the draft. >calling for literal violence against others This is permitted under Brandenburg v. Ohio. Calls to illegal action are only prohibited if they are (1) intended to cause illegal action, (2) reasonably likely to produce such action and (3) imminent.

dahfizz 6y ago

Where does this idea come from that unprotected speech == violence? Perjury is not protected speech, do you think that is violent? Violence is fundamentally a physical thing. Incitements to violence and threats of violence are bad, but they are not the same thing as violence.