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Curious about why people downvote this. Really just curious about specifics, as I fully understand that people have different opinions on gun ownership. I used

Curious about why people downvote this. Really just curious about specifics, as I fully understand that people have different opinions on gun ownership. I used to be really against gun ownership too. Is it because 1. I didn't state facts? I double checked videos 2. I took what politicians' words out of context? Again, I double checked the context. 3. I should not use a gun whatsoever? But then how do I protect myself, assuming escaping is not an option (of course I'll try to run first). 4. This is advocating violence? Then what's a better alternative?

hyper_reality 6y ago
It's because this is a discussion about free speech, not gun ownership. Gun ownership was just being used as an analogy in the comment you were replying to. They'll also downvote this comment, because it asks why people voted a certain way, which is against HN guidelines.
- hintymad 6y ago
  Thanks
drchopchop 6y ago
Well, because the below is an incendiary and mostly false statement. Additionally, just because the police in your community are perfect doesn't mean real problems don't exist elsewhere. "when politicians condoned publicly looting and robbery and violence and abolishing police"
- hintymad 6y ago
  Pelosi on people toppling statues: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z8yhQMTIiI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z8yhQMTIiI. For I remember, statues are not the properties of the mobs, no? AOC on looting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzlRVUJLOwo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzlRVUJLOwo Seattle council member on looting of stores: "Colleagues, I hope we’re all saying we understand why that destruction happened and we understand why people are upset", and "I don't want to hear is for our constituents to be told to be civil, not to be reactionary, to be told looting doesn't solve anything." Minneapolis council woman supports "dismantle" police: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idw83kGmwzw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idw83kGmwzw And didn't Don Lemon, the warrior of our justice warriors publicly called democrats to stop rioting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp7oPgIwpZ8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp7oPgIwpZ8? To be fair, being silent does not mean supporting rioting. I guess that the Portland government letting "protesters" destruct federal court building for 5 months is not condoning either. But hey, it is the righteous people who told us "silence is violence, not me. > because the police in your community are perfect doesn't mean real problems don't exist elsewhere. Of course not. But following the same logic, we should "abolish" or "dismantle" police for a few bad apples?
  - monocasa 6y ago
    > a few bad apples You know that the aphorism is "a few bad apples spoils the bunch", right? The underlying metaphor is that you have to get rid of the entire group because the infection has spread to all of them even if it's not immediately visible from the outside.
  - linuxhansl 6y ago
    I appreciate this discussion and your viewpoint, but I frankly fail to see your point. What is being said is that the police shouldn't be the instance to handle incidents where what is really needed is counseling, or social working. We're talking about shifting funds to those and let police do what they have been trained for. On that, as an aside... I will say that as black-belt in Aikido, I remain flabbergasted that police officers are not taught simple techniques to subdue or disable people/threats without resorting to deadly force. To your original post I will also say that owning a gun does not make you and your family impervious to crime! You cannot protect your family with a gun, it doesn't give your family a bullet proof shield. On the contrary you will likely escalate a situation.
    - hintymad 6y ago
      > What is being said is that the police shouldn't be the instance to handle incidents where what is really needed is counseling, or social working. We're talking about shifting funds to those and let police do what they have been trained for. I wish that's the discussion, but I failed to see that's what actually happened. I'm aware that many people argue that "defund police" means allocating fund for better use, but it sounds revisionism. The word "defund" means stop funding, simple and clear. BLM/ANTIFA's demand is clear too: abolish police. The word "abolish" does not mean restructuring, nor does it mean improving. The Minneapolis council woman was specifically asked for her view about "dismantling police", and I don't see how the word "dismantling" can be interpreted as routing fund to a better org. So, no, the left populists did ask for reallocating funds to "handle incidents where what is really needed is counseling". They were asking for dismantling police. People may take "defund" as "reallocate fund", but that's interpretation that is not supported by facts.
read_if_gay_ 6y ago
> Curious about why people downvote this. Not politically correct.
unethical_ban 6y ago
Because you're spouting off about abolishing the police when a tiny fraction of people actually want to do that, much less elected officials. That any number of elected officials CONDONE rioting. It frustrates me to no end that people will hear one boogeyman then start talking about the end of civilization.
- m0zg 6y ago
  > abolishing the police when a tiny fraction of people actually want to do that A number of jurisdictions adopted steep police budget cuts in recent months (including e.g. Seattle and Portland - home to multi-month violent riots), and Minneapolis literally dismantled their police department. So I challenge this assertion. I also don't get how cutting LE budgets is supposed to improve policing.
  - djsumdog 6y ago
    My prediction is that Seattle and Portland will be Detroit within 4 years. The city will be empty, most business will flee. I left Seattle years ago because I was sick of the bullshit that's going on there. I lived on what became the border of CHAZ. I even made a video about it: https://battlepenguin.video/videos/watch/9f81cd38-3ee9-4f26-bd19-44fea7966c27 https://battlepenguin.video/videos/watch/9f81cd38-3ee9-4f26-... I'm in contact with people in Seattle frequently. I'm still really shocked at how bad things have gotten. I knew police officers and defense attorneys there too. This defunding thing is not going to end well.
    - m0zg 6y ago
      Pretty much my expectation as well. I'm looking for properties in Texas or Florida right now, before real estate market craters in WA, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - unethical_ban 6y ago

hyper_reality 6y ago

It's because this is a discussion about free speech, not gun ownership. Gun ownership was just being used as an analogy in the comment you were replying to. They'll also downvote this comment, because it asks why people voted a certain way, which is against HN guidelines.

hintymad 6y ago
Thanks

drchopchop 6y ago

Well, because the below is an incendiary and mostly false statement. Additionally, just because the police in your community are perfect doesn't mean real problems don't exist elsewhere. "when politicians condoned publicly looting and robbery and violence and abolishing police"

hintymad 6y ago
Pelosi on people toppling statues: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z8yhQMTIiI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z8yhQMTIiI. For I remember, statues are not the properties of the mobs, no? AOC on looting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzlRVUJLOwo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzlRVUJLOwo Seattle council member on looting of stores: "Colleagues, I hope we’re all saying we understand why that destruction happened and we understand why people are upset", and "I don't want to hear is for our constituents to be told to be civil, not to be reactionary, to be told looting doesn't solve anything." Minneapolis council woman supports "dismantle" police: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idw83kGmwzw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idw83kGmwzw And didn't Don Lemon, the warrior of our justice warriors publicly called democrats to stop rioting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp7oPgIwpZ8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp7oPgIwpZ8? To be fair, being silent does not mean supporting rioting. I guess that the Portland government letting "protesters" destruct federal court building for 5 months is not condoning either. But hey, it is the righteous people who told us "silence is violence, not me. > because the police in your community are perfect doesn't mean real problems don't exist elsewhere. Of course not. But following the same logic, we should "abolish" or "dismantle" police for a few bad apples?
- monocasa 6y ago
  > a few bad apples You know that the aphorism is "a few bad apples spoils the bunch", right? The underlying metaphor is that you have to get rid of the entire group because the infection has spread to all of them even if it's not immediately visible from the outside.
- linuxhansl 6y ago
  I appreciate this discussion and your viewpoint, but I frankly fail to see your point. What is being said is that the police shouldn't be the instance to handle incidents where what is really needed is counseling, or social working. We're talking about shifting funds to those and let police do what they have been trained for. On that, as an aside... I will say that as black-belt in Aikido, I remain flabbergasted that police officers are not taught simple techniques to subdue or disable people/threats without resorting to deadly force. To your original post I will also say that owning a gun does not make you and your family impervious to crime! You cannot protect your family with a gun, it doesn't give your family a bullet proof shield. On the contrary you will likely escalate a situation.
  - hintymad 6y ago
    > What is being said is that the police shouldn't be the instance to handle incidents where what is really needed is counseling, or social working. We're talking about shifting funds to those and let police do what they have been trained for. I wish that's the discussion, but I failed to see that's what actually happened. I'm aware that many people argue that "defund police" means allocating fund for better use, but it sounds revisionism. The word "defund" means stop funding, simple and clear. BLM/ANTIFA's demand is clear too: abolish police. The word "abolish" does not mean restructuring, nor does it mean improving. The Minneapolis council woman was specifically asked for her view about "dismantling police", and I don't see how the word "dismantling" can be interpreted as routing fund to a better org. So, no, the left populists did ask for reallocating funds to "handle incidents where what is really needed is counseling". They were asking for dismantling police. People may take "defund" as "reallocate fund", but that's interpretation that is not supported by facts.

read_if_gay_ 6y ago

> Curious about why people downvote this. Not politically correct.

unethical_ban 6y ago

Because you're spouting off about abolishing the police when a tiny fraction of people actually want to do that, much less elected officials. That any number of elected officials CONDONE rioting. It frustrates me to no end that people will hear one boogeyman then start talking about the end of civilization.

m0zg 6y ago
> abolishing the police when a tiny fraction of people actually want to do that A number of jurisdictions adopted steep police budget cuts in recent months (including e.g. Seattle and Portland - home to multi-month violent riots), and Minneapolis literally dismantled their police department. So I challenge this assertion. I also don't get how cutting LE budgets is supposed to improve policing.
- djsumdog 6y ago
  My prediction is that Seattle and Portland will be Detroit within 4 years. The city will be empty, most business will flee. I left Seattle years ago because I was sick of the bullshit that's going on there. I lived on what became the border of CHAZ. I even made a video about it: https://battlepenguin.video/videos/watch/9f81cd38-3ee9-4f26-bd19-44fea7966c27 https://battlepenguin.video/videos/watch/9f81cd38-3ee9-4f26-... I'm in contact with people in Seattle frequently. I'm still really shocked at how bad things have gotten. I knew police officers and defense attorneys there too. This defunding thing is not going to end well.
  - m0zg 6y ago
    Pretty much my expectation as well. I'm looking for properties in Texas or Florida right now, before real estate market craters in WA, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- unethical_ban 6y ago