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A number of years ago, people speculated that as people in China became wealthier, they'd start worrying about things beyond just having food and some nicer goo

by davidw 6y ago

A number of years ago, people speculated that as people in China became wealthier, they'd start worrying about things beyond just having food and some nicer goods in their lives, and start pushing for change, including, perhaps, some form of democracy. Things like local environmental disasters could have moved things in that direction, as people tire of the corruption and lack of action. That hasn't happened, sadly.

elevenoh 6y ago
Wonder if this (Chinese citizen push for democracy, individual liberties, care for the environment etc.) will come to unfold as a kind of 'dam break' wave of rapid change over a slow-moving change where nodes of conformity are squashed by the collective. Memes spread pretty quick these days.
wahern 6y ago
> That hasn't happened, sadly. Why do you say that? From the news I've read over the past 10-20 years, my understanding is that China has steadily increased its emphasis on environmental protection and regulation, for example regarding food safety, air quality, and even nuclear safety (nuclear plants are becoming more expensive to build there, though claims of the industry's death have been extremely premature). Most recently, for example, part of the reason for banning imports of recyclables is because they were piling up and contributing to pollution. It's just that in absolute terms, and relative to the standards of rich industrial countries, China has a lot more ground to still cover. As with domestic news, the fact that you read and hear about these situations is often better understood as evidence that things are getting better, not worse, reflecting a positive shift in attention and emphasis. Especially in a country like China where authorities have far more control over both domestic and foreign reporting--compare the difficulty of substantive reporting on the Ugyhurs.

by davidw 6y ago

elevenoh 6y ago

Wonder if this (Chinese citizen push for democracy, individual liberties, care for the environment etc.) will come to unfold as a kind of 'dam break' wave of rapid change over a slow-moving change where nodes of conformity are squashed by the collective. Memes spread pretty quick these days.

wahern 6y ago

> That hasn't happened, sadly. Why do you say that? From the news I've read over the past 10-20 years, my understanding is that China has steadily increased its emphasis on environmental protection and regulation, for example regarding food safety, air quality, and even nuclear safety (nuclear plants are becoming more expensive to build there, though claims of the industry's death have been extremely premature). Most recently, for example, part of the reason for banning imports of recyclables is because they were piling up and contributing to pollution. It's just that in absolute terms, and relative to the standards of rich industrial countries, China has a lot more ground to still cover. As with domestic news, the fact that you read and hear about these situations is often better understood as evidence that things are getting better, not worse, reflecting a positive shift in attention and emphasis. Especially in a country like China where authorities have far more control over both domestic and foreign reporting--compare the difficulty of substantive reporting on the Ugyhurs.