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You are all over this thread trying to protect Apple by hook or by crook, jumping into any statement and twisting and forcing your interpretations. Sagaarjha’s

You are all over this thread trying to protect Apple by hook or by crook, jumping into any statement and twisting and forcing your interpretations. Sagaarjha’s statement is still essentially saying the same as mine, so it's absolute nonsense to claim that it's not what Apple is saying, but then agreeing with Sagaarjha’s statement, which fundamentally says the same thing. Your zealousness in this thread exposes your unbearable bias.

zepto 6y ago
It seems like I struck a nerve. There is nothing twisted about my interpretations, and I’m not defending Apple. Here are is a summary of my position: 1. I agree with Gruber - Apple shouldn’t be policing discussion of their rules. 2. Your comment is not the same as Sagaarjha’s. I have clearly explained why, and you have chosen to ignore the points I made, and attack me personally. 3. I can understand why Apple is motivated to police certain comments, and I believe the motivations are based on real problems they want to avoid in good faith. 4. Despite believing #3 I also believe #1. Just because they are acting in good faith on real problems, doesn’t mean I think they are doing the right thing. 5. I believe we should choose open OS’s and there should be a possibly mandated requirement to be able to install alternate OS’s on Apple decides (and anything else in a wide similar class). Not one thing I have said in this thread defends Apple’s actions at all. I don’t find that it helps us to understand what is going on if we simply portray them as a nasty bully without considering their motivations. If this is representative of ‘unbearable bias’, then so be it.
- jedimind 6y ago
  > There is nothing twisted about my interpretations, and I’m not defending Apple. I stopped reading there. It's as false as it is shameless to make such a claim after all the comments you spammed across the whole thread.
  - zepto 6y ago
    Unfortunately, if you really stopped there, then you don’t understand what I mean when I say that. But, since you have such a black and white view: Can you quote a single comment from this thread in which I defend Apple?
    - jedimind 6y ago
      > Can you quote a single comment from this thread in which I defend Apple? "Obviously they make their own ethical judgements when enforcing their own rules, as do we all." - It would have been more difficult to find comments from this thread where you didn't defend Apple applying all sorts of mental gymnastics.
      - zepto 6y ago
        What makes you think I’m defending Apple there? That quoted statement is obviously true. How does it “defend Apple” to state the truth?
        jedimind 6y ago
        > What makes you think I’m defending Apple there? That quoted statement is obviously true. It's a tautology and a miserable attempt at defending Apple. Like reacting to a victim's complaint by saying "Well animals also steal from each other, most organisms engage in such behaviour" Then saying - That statement is true so how am I defending the thief here!? Even asking "hOw DiD I dEfEnD aPpLe" is absurd, when that's literally all you have been doing in most of the comments above. I'll no longer participate in your pointless hairsplitting games.
        zepto 6y ago
        It’s only a tautology if you believe that ethics have a subjective dimension. That is not a given in this thread, where people are writing comments that essentialise Apple’s ethics. The reason I made that comment was to highlight this point. Each of us is bringing a sense of what is right and wrong to this. One we introduce this, we can start to reason about why Apple is taking what we think of as a wrong action, and what kind of compromises are leading to it. Simply vilifying them just closes us of from understanding them. Your analogy positions Apple as a perpetrator, the developer as a victim, and me as an apologist. Once again, you aren’t actually engaging in a discussion. You are begging the question with your framing. http://begthequestion.info/ http://begthequestion.info/ You aren’t actually explaining why the framing is valid. As I said, if I were really defending Apple, it would be easy to show. Just repeating over and over again that I am is not that. You can’t explain it because it isn’t happening.

zepto 6y ago

It seems like I struck a nerve. There is nothing twisted about my interpretations, and I’m not defending Apple. Here are is a summary of my position: 1. I agree with Gruber - Apple shouldn’t be policing discussion of their rules. 2. Your comment is not the same as Sagaarjha’s. I have clearly explained why, and you have chosen to ignore the points I made, and attack me personally. 3. I can understand why Apple is motivated to police certain comments, and I believe the motivations are based on real problems they want to avoid in good faith. 4. Despite believing #3 I also believe #1. Just because they are acting in good faith on real problems, doesn’t mean I think they are doing the right thing. 5. I believe we should choose open OS’s and there should be a possibly mandated requirement to be able to install alternate OS’s on Apple decides (and anything else in a wide similar class). Not one thing I have said in this thread defends Apple’s actions at all. I don’t find that it helps us to understand what is going on if we simply portray them as a nasty bully without considering their motivations. If this is representative of ‘unbearable bias’, then so be it.

jedimind 6y ago
> There is nothing twisted about my interpretations, and I’m not defending Apple. I stopped reading there. It's as false as it is shameless to make such a claim after all the comments you spammed across the whole thread.
- zepto 6y ago
  Unfortunately, if you really stopped there, then you don’t understand what I mean when I say that. But, since you have such a black and white view: Can you quote a single comment from this thread in which I defend Apple?
  - jedimind 6y ago
    > Can you quote a single comment from this thread in which I defend Apple? "Obviously they make their own ethical judgements when enforcing their own rules, as do we all." - It would have been more difficult to find comments from this thread where you didn't defend Apple applying all sorts of mental gymnastics.
    - zepto 6y ago
      What makes you think I’m defending Apple there? That quoted statement is obviously true. How does it “defend Apple” to state the truth?
      - jedimind 6y ago
        > What makes you think I’m defending Apple there? That quoted statement is obviously true. It's a tautology and a miserable attempt at defending Apple. Like reacting to a victim's complaint by saying "Well animals also steal from each other, most organisms engage in such behaviour" Then saying - That statement is true so how am I defending the thief here!? Even asking "hOw DiD I dEfEnD aPpLe" is absurd, when that's literally all you have been doing in most of the comments above. I'll no longer participate in your pointless hairsplitting games.
        zepto 6y ago
        It’s only a tautology if you believe that ethics have a subjective dimension. That is not a given in this thread, where people are writing comments that essentialise Apple’s ethics. The reason I made that comment was to highlight this point. Each of us is bringing a sense of what is right and wrong to this. One we introduce this, we can start to reason about why Apple is taking what we think of as a wrong action, and what kind of compromises are leading to it. Simply vilifying them just closes us of from understanding them. Your analogy positions Apple as a perpetrator, the developer as a victim, and me as an apologist. Once again, you aren’t actually engaging in a discussion. You are begging the question with your framing. http://begthequestion.info/ http://begthequestion.info/ You aren’t actually explaining why the framing is valid. As I said, if I were really defending Apple, it would be easy to show. Just repeating over and over again that I am is not that. You can’t explain it because it isn’t happening.