4 ms·

I find this expectation really strange. It's like 'violence in games', if you refer to it everyone will nod, but how it became such a widely accepted fact is at

I find this expectation really strange. It's like 'violence in games', if you refer to it everyone will nod, but how it became such a widely accepted fact is at best unclear. I'm sure some cases of it happened somewhere, there are some papers, and some appeal to authority is a given, but do we really know if WFH equals mental health issues en masse? For example, I wonder if: long commute, all the preparation before/after a work day, and resulting overall diminished free time causes more mental issues or not. What about constant interruptions, loud neighbours and that white light above you, even though you'd rather have it yellow? All the inconveniences of sharing a place with other people, wouldn't any of this take a toll? Seems to me when "office" is heard everyone thinks of that one nice summer evening after work and had a few beers yada yada, nobody seems to remember that cold-ass winter day where you would rather stay in 5 levels of blankets yet had to go to office, then slipped on ice and landed on your ass. Maybe it's true and WFH will turn most people to madness. I'm just saying it's not an established fact of life, and opposite is also very much possible.

rtkwe 6y ago
The thing mostly talked about is social isolation and it seems pretty straight forward that going from time in the office to the same time at home reduces social contact.
- vngzs 6y ago
  Yeah, for me it's less "working was my only social interaction" and more "with covid, we can't work in person and we also can't go do our own things with friends." Losing in-person work relationships at the same time as social relationships is rough. Luckily I get along well with the person I live with, but the lack of ad-hoc social interaction is unsettling.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  Or, it’s good that people will be forced to build social networks outside of their work, as it was a bad development that citizens began to depend heavily on work for meaning and connection. Once the pandemic is over, of course.
  - throwaways885 6y ago
    People have always relied on work for building social lives. Even when I worked in a shop, I'd end up going for drinks with those people and making friends. When I moved to a new city, my entire social fabric stems off of work (even if the majority of friends are now 1 or 2 steps removed, I needed that foundation to bootstrap). We're already in a loneliness epidemic, WFH will make that 10x worse.
    - ashtonkem 6y ago
      You’ve misread my point, and are arguing against something I didn’t say. I never said that people didn’t have social networks at work before, I said that they didn’t depend so heavily upon them. People used to also have extensive social networks outside of work through various religious and social institutions, most of which have withered in the past 20 years or so. This is a huge part of this “loneliness epidemic” you mention. We should rebuild those so that people alternating their work structure isn’t a debilitating blow to their social network. This is particularly important since people change jobs much more rapidly now, which disrupts any social network based on work.
superfrank 6y ago
Preface: I don't think full WFH will happen after COVID, I think companies will try it and slowly end up reverting back to more of a partial WFH schedule like Microsoft just announced, for a number of reasons. That being said, I agree with you here. I our current work situation right now is causing a ton of stress and mental health issues, but COVID and our current political climate have a much bigger hand in that than just the WFH part. What WFH looks like right now is not what a 100% WFH lifestyle would look like in a year or two. I've had the ability to WFH when ever I wanted for the past 4 years and I can tell you, my current WFH situation is much more draining that it ever was before. I think your video game analogy is pretty spot on. There are problems with 100% WFH, but "mass mental health issues" just seems like a boogieman.
scatters 6y ago
> What about constant interruptions, loud neighbours and that white light above you, even though you'd rather have it yellow? All the inconveniences of sharing a place with other people, wouldn't any of this take a toll? Are you describing working in an office or working from home?
- spdionis 6y ago
  Stole the words out of my... keyboard. Wait till people who love WFH say "You just need the proper setup". Yes, I need a proper setup. An office, please.
  - maerF0x0 6y ago
    but it could be a home office with 0 minute commute.
    - nullsense 6y ago
      Ah yes, my lonely concrete bunker beneath my house.
      - r3trohack3r 6y ago
        I understand the sentiment here. But there are different lifestyles. For some, home is where they spend a majority of their time outside of work. I've optimized my home around my lifestyle. WFH doesn't require building a sensory deprivation tank. Since going remote, I work in a swimming pool about 50% of the time. I have a good pair of noise cancelling headphones, a Panasonic toughbook, and a "floating standing desk" (a raft turned upside down). I smoke a cigar, sip a nice whiskey, and crank through my work. Then I go spend time with my family and friends. It's not quite a concrete bunker beneath my house. But I'm not coming back to an office anytime soon.
        nullsense 6y ago
        brb buying a pool

rtkwe 6y ago

The thing mostly talked about is social isolation and it seems pretty straight forward that going from time in the office to the same time at home reduces social contact.

vngzs 6y ago
Yeah, for me it's less "working was my only social interaction" and more "with covid, we can't work in person and we also can't go do our own things with friends." Losing in-person work relationships at the same time as social relationships is rough. Luckily I get along well with the person I live with, but the lack of ad-hoc social interaction is unsettling.
ashtonkem 6y ago
Or, it’s good that people will be forced to build social networks outside of their work, as it was a bad development that citizens began to depend heavily on work for meaning and connection. Once the pandemic is over, of course.
- throwaways885 6y ago
  People have always relied on work for building social lives. Even when I worked in a shop, I'd end up going for drinks with those people and making friends. When I moved to a new city, my entire social fabric stems off of work (even if the majority of friends are now 1 or 2 steps removed, I needed that foundation to bootstrap). We're already in a loneliness epidemic, WFH will make that 10x worse.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    You’ve misread my point, and are arguing against something I didn’t say. I never said that people didn’t have social networks at work before, I said that they didn’t depend so heavily upon them. People used to also have extensive social networks outside of work through various religious and social institutions, most of which have withered in the past 20 years or so. This is a huge part of this “loneliness epidemic” you mention. We should rebuild those so that people alternating their work structure isn’t a debilitating blow to their social network. This is particularly important since people change jobs much more rapidly now, which disrupts any social network based on work.

superfrank 6y ago

Preface: I don't think full WFH will happen after COVID, I think companies will try it and slowly end up reverting back to more of a partial WFH schedule like Microsoft just announced, for a number of reasons. That being said, I agree with you here. I our current work situation right now is causing a ton of stress and mental health issues, but COVID and our current political climate have a much bigger hand in that than just the WFH part. What WFH looks like right now is not what a 100% WFH lifestyle would look like in a year or two. I've had the ability to WFH when ever I wanted for the past 4 years and I can tell you, my current WFH situation is much more draining that it ever was before. I think your video game analogy is pretty spot on. There are problems with 100% WFH, but "mass mental health issues" just seems like a boogieman.

scatters 6y ago

> What about constant interruptions, loud neighbours and that white light above you, even though you'd rather have it yellow? All the inconveniences of sharing a place with other people, wouldn't any of this take a toll? Are you describing working in an office or working from home?

spdionis 6y ago
Stole the words out of my... keyboard. Wait till people who love WFH say "You just need the proper setup". Yes, I need a proper setup. An office, please.
- maerF0x0 6y ago
  but it could be a home office with 0 minute commute.
  - nullsense 6y ago
    Ah yes, my lonely concrete bunker beneath my house.
    - r3trohack3r 6y ago
      I understand the sentiment here. But there are different lifestyles. For some, home is where they spend a majority of their time outside of work. I've optimized my home around my lifestyle. WFH doesn't require building a sensory deprivation tank. Since going remote, I work in a swimming pool about 50% of the time. I have a good pair of noise cancelling headphones, a Panasonic toughbook, and a "floating standing desk" (a raft turned upside down). I smoke a cigar, sip a nice whiskey, and crank through my work. Then I go spend time with my family and friends. It's not quite a concrete bunker beneath my house. But I'm not coming back to an office anytime soon.
      - nullsense 6y ago
        brb buying a pool