4 ms·

I once took an Africana Studies course at UMass Boston and the professor taught us that the noses were broken off the statues due to the hatred of black peoples

I once took an Africana Studies course at UMass Boston and the professor taught us that the noses were broken off the statues due to the hatred of black peoples by white explorers over millennia. She also taught us that the ancient Egyptians were black and that it was black people that built the pyramids. When I innocently asked her why the slides she showed us seemed to show Egyptians as having more middle eastern appearance, she scolded me on my prejudice and denial. I dropped the class shortly thereafter.

jacobush 6y ago
Maybe something about the Nubian rulers? Guest workers? I don't know.
- BeetleB 6y ago
  The Nubians were a different group of people than most of the ancient Egyptian rulers we know. Nubians were in the South.
  - jccooper 6y ago
    True, but they had close relationships with ancient Egypt, including various periods of rule by and of Egypt proper, and their cultural artifacts and practices were very heavily Egyptianized, to a point where it's a fine distinction whether something is Nubian or Egyptian, for a period of something like a thousand years
  - Tuna-Fish 6y ago
    There were, however, a bunch of Pharaohs with some Nubian roots. Notably, Amenemhat I, the founder of the 12th dynasty, probably had a Nubian mother. They were rare, though.
KoftaBob 6y ago
Ironically, modern day Egyptians actually have slightly more Sub-Saharan African genetic markers than the Ancient Egyptians did. Several genetic analyses have been done on Ancient Egyptian mummies, and they tend to be most closely related to modern-day people of the Levant (Syria/Lebanon). So if your professor was calling them black as in Sub-Saharan, the genetic evidence says otherwise. If she meant black as in dark skin, then sure, it's the Egyptian sun we're talking about after all. Source (one of many): https://www.washingtonpost.com./news/speaking-of-science/wp/2017/05/30/dna-from-ancient-egyptian-mummies-reveals-their-ancestry/ https://www.washingtonpost.com./news/speaking-of-science/wp/...
- singularity2001 6y ago
  Old Egyptians where closer related to modern Europeans than to modern Egyptians. image: https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/516118/44733984-5295b180-aad8-11e8-84a4-e49911efcbdd.png https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/516118/44733984-52... source: https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15694 https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15694 Also remember that the Gebelein mummy and Ramses had red hair.
choeger 6y ago
That is infuriating, disturbing, comical, and depressing at the same time.
bsanr2 6y ago
We need to stop having these discussions here. HN users are broadly unequipped to deal with the subject of the "blackness" of Ancient Egyptians. Immediately citing limited genetic studies (as conveyed by a popular newspaper) rather than attempting to understand and sustain reasoned discourse on the sociopolitical dynamics of race is a dead giveaway. Suffice it to say, the genetic evidence shows that Egyptians (and their southern neighbors) are an indigenous African population, with the current residents of the region generally descendents of the people who were there 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 thousand years ago. The question of their blackness is a political one - as blackness itself is a social construct of the modern age, predicated on appearance and political necessity rather than strict ancestry, and generally inapplicable to ancient populations. In this case, the continuous and vehement insistence that Egyptians were not "black", over a century and a half of Western scholarship and backed by varying rationales as the years proceeded, is useful as a study in the politics of race and perceived technical and societal capability. No one gets so up in arms about whether or not the Ancient Greeks were "white" (Super-Alpine white). Edit: I suppose I asked for it, considering my audience. Thank you for living up to my worst expectations. (Seriously, delete the post.)
- Grakel 6y ago
  Ah, the academy's amazing tap dance to obscure simple but inconvenient facts. Love it.
  - bsanr2 6y ago
    I feel like I'm being concise. Blackness is a designation of political expediency. It's not a genetic distinction. HN commenters routinely confuse this point. Ergo, this is a poor topic for us to discuss. You seem to be hinting at something scandalous; please do be upfront.
    - Grakel 6y ago
      Bro, I'm tenure track, I speak fluent nonsense, do your thing, it's all good.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
HarryHirsch 6y ago
At least one person in that class must have picked that class for an "easy A", wrote class papers and exams as was required, and thought they got a great deal out of it. Education is a market, you know, you buy a grade and you pay with studying. The less you pay, the better the deal, and everyone loves a good deal.

jacobush 6y ago

Maybe something about the Nubian rulers? Guest workers? I don't know.

BeetleB 6y ago
The Nubians were a different group of people than most of the ancient Egyptian rulers we know. Nubians were in the South.
- jccooper 6y ago
  True, but they had close relationships with ancient Egypt, including various periods of rule by and of Egypt proper, and their cultural artifacts and practices were very heavily Egyptianized, to a point where it's a fine distinction whether something is Nubian or Egyptian, for a period of something like a thousand years
- Tuna-Fish 6y ago
  There were, however, a bunch of Pharaohs with some Nubian roots. Notably, Amenemhat I, the founder of the 12th dynasty, probably had a Nubian mother. They were rare, though.

KoftaBob 6y ago

Ironically, modern day Egyptians actually have slightly more Sub-Saharan African genetic markers than the Ancient Egyptians did. Several genetic analyses have been done on Ancient Egyptian mummies, and they tend to be most closely related to modern-day people of the Levant (Syria/Lebanon). So if your professor was calling them black as in Sub-Saharan, the genetic evidence says otherwise. If she meant black as in dark skin, then sure, it's the Egyptian sun we're talking about after all. Source (one of many): https://www.washingtonpost.com./news/speaking-of-science/wp/2017/05/30/dna-from-ancient-egyptian-mummies-reveals-their-ancestry/ https://www.washingtonpost.com./news/speaking-of-science/wp/...

singularity2001 6y ago
Old Egyptians where closer related to modern Europeans than to modern Egyptians. image: https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/516118/44733984-5295b180-aad8-11e8-84a4-e49911efcbdd.png https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/516118/44733984-52... source: https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15694 https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15694 Also remember that the Gebelein mummy and Ramses had red hair.

choeger 6y ago

That is infuriating, disturbing, comical, and depressing at the same time.

bsanr2 6y ago

We need to stop having these discussions here. HN users are broadly unequipped to deal with the subject of the "blackness" of Ancient Egyptians. Immediately citing limited genetic studies (as conveyed by a popular newspaper) rather than attempting to understand and sustain reasoned discourse on the sociopolitical dynamics of race is a dead giveaway. Suffice it to say, the genetic evidence shows that Egyptians (and their southern neighbors) are an indigenous African population, with the current residents of the region generally descendents of the people who were there 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 thousand years ago. The question of their blackness is a political one - as blackness itself is a social construct of the modern age, predicated on appearance and political necessity rather than strict ancestry, and generally inapplicable to ancient populations. In this case, the continuous and vehement insistence that Egyptians were not "black", over a century and a half of Western scholarship and backed by varying rationales as the years proceeded, is useful as a study in the politics of race and perceived technical and societal capability. No one gets so up in arms about whether or not the Ancient Greeks were "white" (Super-Alpine white). Edit: I suppose I asked for it, considering my audience. Thank you for living up to my worst expectations. (Seriously, delete the post.)

Grakel 6y ago
Ah, the academy's amazing tap dance to obscure simple but inconvenient facts. Love it.
- bsanr2 6y ago
  I feel like I'm being concise. Blackness is a designation of political expediency. It's not a genetic distinction. HN commenters routinely confuse this point. Ergo, this is a poor topic for us to discuss. You seem to be hinting at something scandalous; please do be upfront.
  - Grakel 6y ago
    Bro, I'm tenure track, I speak fluent nonsense, do your thing, it's all good.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

HarryHirsch 6y ago

At least one person in that class must have picked that class for an "easy A", wrote class papers and exams as was required, and thought they got a great deal out of it. Education is a market, you know, you buy a grade and you pay with studying. The less you pay, the better the deal, and everyone loves a good deal.