4 ms·

Lots of inaccurate info in here but also some valid points. UWP sucks really bad and it does reduce the reliability of the system, especially when UWP-type thin

by nxc18 6y ago

Lots of inaccurate info in here but also some valid points. UWP sucks really bad and it does reduce the reliability of the system, especially when UWP-type things end up in the shell (e.g. start menu and action center). I will point out that File Explorer includes a shortcut for opening PowerShell at the current directory, which can be triggered through the File menu or alt-f-r. Its worth highlighting that Linux isn't an option for everyone. I personally prefer the design to Windows 10 and hate Microsoft's anti-consumer stance. I'd love to confine it to a VM that I only run when I need something specific. Unfortunately, Ubuntu at least cannot handle using Intel graphics with Nvidia graphics in a mixed-DPI setup (one monitor 1080P, one monitor 4K). I think this is a reasonably common setup. Running a kernel update is also troublingly likely to render the system unbootable (it has happened multiple times on Ubuntu, zero times on Windows; I've done many orders of magnitude more Windows work than Ubuntu work). I feel slightly jealous of the folks who are feasibly able to run Linux on the desktop without compromising on hardware.

131012 6y ago
Anecdotal, but I never had a single issue with kernel update and I manage many ubuntu machines. Got a link/proof/more info on that?
- nxc18 6y ago
  I'm running Windows now after trying to switch my primary device to Ubuntu periodically for the last 5 years... I've been experimenting with Ubuntu since 2007 and none of my devices have been able to run it well. If you've got a basic setup or don't want a graphical environment, things are fine, but I think I tend to push the limit a bit too much In my case I also need KVM etc. On Windows I just use Hyper-V when I need a VM (many years ago I'd use Virtual PC). Hyper-V has never rendered my device unusable, even when pushing the limits with things like GPU pass through. I think my 2018 attempt failed when trying to update Ubuntu kernel after setting up KVM for a Windows VM; I had restarted between getting KVM set up and doing the Ubuntu update. I haven't documented anything - I wanted to but I never really found the solutions I was looking for. I'm not making this up; I'd really love to be typing this from Ubuntu right now. edit: I reviewed and made changes for a more constructive tone.
- lostmsu 6y ago
  I had it a few times. This used to happen when kernels fill up boot partition, and apt gets into broken state because of that.
  - beagle3 6y ago
    yes, apt can get temporarily broken if your boot partition fills up - but it does not make a system unbootable when this happens (Which GP says he encountered). a few apt-get removes and apt-get installs -f, and it's all back to normal - but it's only ever "apt" that stops working, and only until you fix it. (I've seen got in the habbit of doing "apt-get autoremove --purge && apt-get autoclean" regularly on all machines I manage. The only borked Ubuntu kernel upgrade I've ever seen did not render anything unbootable, but a bad OOM Killer patch caused programs to get spontaneously killed in some cases - and I'm runnig, and automatically updating, tens of Ubuntu machines automatically all the time.
xxpor 6y ago
>Unfortunately, Ubuntu at least cannot handle using Intel graphics with Nvidia graphics in a mixed-DPI setup (one monitor 1080P, one monitor 4K) Yes, this is unfortunate and means I don't run Linux at home much. IIRC it's an Xorg issue though, and Wayland supports it. I got it working on Wayland, but then there was a different issue with Wayland that I don't remember so I went back to Windows :\ It's unfortunate because even my usual reason to use Windows (games) doesn't matter at the moment, Overwatch runs perfectly on Linux with Wine.
ploxiln 6y ago
I've long avoided "switchable graphics", for this reason. The complexity breeds issues. Be happy with just intel graphics, or go for an AMD/radeon, to improve your chances of not running into bugs/incompatibilities. Modern graphics are just such a monster of complexity, change, variety, secrecy, etc. (I'm going to venture a guess that the "kernel update [can] render the system unbootable" is due to nvidia binary-blob driver needing some glue code to both update and recompile for new kernel versions ... it can work fine, usually, but for best experience, skip the hassle of nvidia on linux, or keep it as simple and vanilla as possible with a distro that takes care of it for you I guess.)
- nxc18 6y ago
  I didn't know Radeon was better with Linux. I'd like to turn my current device into a headless server and build a new PC specifically to run Ubuntu well. CUDA is a key use case for me though - I actually use quite a lot of software that depends on it and my understanding is I can't do that with AMD graphics. I'd also like to get in on the RTX 3080/3070 action and I think I might value that performance more than being able to run Linux natively.
  - eska 6y ago
    I decided to ditch NVidia due to bad linux compatibility and went with an AMD. Had no issued whatsoever since then (half year). I was also surprised to see a Phoronix benchmark for Blender with many graphics cards and different GPU off loading libraries showing AMD doing well there too. I always thought I'll be compromising on performance there.
- spdionis 6y ago
  Except most laptops with a dedicated graphics card force you to use both. The ones that rely fully on the the dedicated video card are high end and usually have different disadvantages (weight, battery time).
  - Yetanfou 6y ago
    ...or older, like my Thinkpad T42p with a 'Mobility FireGL T2' (Radeon RV350). Other than some occasional AGP-related instability which seems to be hardware-related Xorg works fine on this machine.
ju-st 6y ago
> I will point out that File Explorer includes a shortcut for opening PowerShell at the current directory, which can be triggered through the File menu or alt-f-r. You can also type "powershell" or "cmd" or whatever into the Windows Explorer address bar.
- jotux 6y ago
  Shift+Right-Click will add a "Open powershell window here" option to the right click window as well. I think this has been around since win2k.
jayd16 6y ago
>I will point out that File Explorer includes a shortcut for opening PowerShell at the current directory, which can be triggered through the File menu or alt-f-r. Shift-right click should show "open powershell here" and a few others. You can also type "powershell" in the file explorer path bar and it'll do the same.
nesarkvechnep 6y ago
All the criticism of Linux in your comment is a criticism of Ubuntu. Try a different distro as there is choice. I've tried Ubuntu a few times but it has been unstable and yeah, an update made it unbootable. I'd always returned to Manjaro, never had an issue with it.

by nxc18 6y ago

131012 6y ago

Anecdotal, but I never had a single issue with kernel update and I manage many ubuntu machines. Got a link/proof/more info on that?

nxc18 6y ago
I'm running Windows now after trying to switch my primary device to Ubuntu periodically for the last 5 years... I've been experimenting with Ubuntu since 2007 and none of my devices have been able to run it well. If you've got a basic setup or don't want a graphical environment, things are fine, but I think I tend to push the limit a bit too much In my case I also need KVM etc. On Windows I just use Hyper-V when I need a VM (many years ago I'd use Virtual PC). Hyper-V has never rendered my device unusable, even when pushing the limits with things like GPU pass through. I think my 2018 attempt failed when trying to update Ubuntu kernel after setting up KVM for a Windows VM; I had restarted between getting KVM set up and doing the Ubuntu update. I haven't documented anything - I wanted to but I never really found the solutions I was looking for. I'm not making this up; I'd really love to be typing this from Ubuntu right now. edit: I reviewed and made changes for a more constructive tone.
lostmsu 6y ago
I had it a few times. This used to happen when kernels fill up boot partition, and apt gets into broken state because of that.
- beagle3 6y ago
  yes, apt can get temporarily broken if your boot partition fills up - but it does not make a system unbootable when this happens (Which GP says he encountered). a few apt-get removes and apt-get installs -f, and it's all back to normal - but it's only ever "apt" that stops working, and only until you fix it. (I've seen got in the habbit of doing "apt-get autoremove --purge && apt-get autoclean" regularly on all machines I manage. The only borked Ubuntu kernel upgrade I've ever seen did not render anything unbootable, but a bad OOM Killer patch caused programs to get spontaneously killed in some cases - and I'm runnig, and automatically updating, tens of Ubuntu machines automatically all the time.

xxpor 6y ago

>Unfortunately, Ubuntu at least cannot handle using Intel graphics with Nvidia graphics in a mixed-DPI setup (one monitor 1080P, one monitor 4K) Yes, this is unfortunate and means I don't run Linux at home much. IIRC it's an Xorg issue though, and Wayland supports it. I got it working on Wayland, but then there was a different issue with Wayland that I don't remember so I went back to Windows :\ It's unfortunate because even my usual reason to use Windows (games) doesn't matter at the moment, Overwatch runs perfectly on Linux with Wine.

ploxiln 6y ago

I've long avoided "switchable graphics", for this reason. The complexity breeds issues. Be happy with just intel graphics, or go for an AMD/radeon, to improve your chances of not running into bugs/incompatibilities. Modern graphics are just such a monster of complexity, change, variety, secrecy, etc. (I'm going to venture a guess that the "kernel update [can] render the system unbootable" is due to nvidia binary-blob driver needing some glue code to both update and recompile for new kernel versions ... it can work fine, usually, but for best experience, skip the hassle of nvidia on linux, or keep it as simple and vanilla as possible with a distro that takes care of it for you I guess.)

nxc18 6y ago
I didn't know Radeon was better with Linux. I'd like to turn my current device into a headless server and build a new PC specifically to run Ubuntu well. CUDA is a key use case for me though - I actually use quite a lot of software that depends on it and my understanding is I can't do that with AMD graphics. I'd also like to get in on the RTX 3080/3070 action and I think I might value that performance more than being able to run Linux natively.
- eska 6y ago
  I decided to ditch NVidia due to bad linux compatibility and went with an AMD. Had no issued whatsoever since then (half year). I was also surprised to see a Phoronix benchmark for Blender with many graphics cards and different GPU off loading libraries showing AMD doing well there too. I always thought I'll be compromising on performance there.
spdionis 6y ago
Except most laptops with a dedicated graphics card force you to use both. The ones that rely fully on the the dedicated video card are high end and usually have different disadvantages (weight, battery time).
- Yetanfou 6y ago
  ...or older, like my Thinkpad T42p with a 'Mobility FireGL T2' (Radeon RV350). Other than some occasional AGP-related instability which seems to be hardware-related Xorg works fine on this machine.

ju-st 6y ago

> I will point out that File Explorer includes a shortcut for opening PowerShell at the current directory, which can be triggered through the File menu or alt-f-r. You can also type "powershell" or "cmd" or whatever into the Windows Explorer address bar.

jotux 6y ago
Shift+Right-Click will add a "Open powershell window here" option to the right click window as well. I think this has been around since win2k.

jayd16 6y ago

>I will point out that File Explorer includes a shortcut for opening PowerShell at the current directory, which can be triggered through the File menu or alt-f-r. Shift-right click should show "open powershell here" and a few others. You can also type "powershell" in the file explorer path bar and it'll do the same.

nesarkvechnep 6y ago

All the criticism of Linux in your comment is a criticism of Ubuntu. Try a different distro as there is choice. I've tried Ubuntu a few times but it has been unstable and yeah, an update made it unbootable. I'd always returned to Manjaro, never had an issue with it.