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Wow, that story made me more angry than it should have. Why the heck should Apple be allowed to police your own app's changelog? "Because they can" is probably

by umvi 6y ago

Wow, that story made me more angry than it should have. Why the heck should Apple be allowed to police your own app's changelog? "Because they can" is probably the reason.

zepto 6y ago
Have you never heard an inexperienced developer incorrectly blame the platform or the tools for their own bugs?
- umvi 6y ago
  Yes, so what? It comes back to the other article on HN about YouTube arbitrating truth. Apple should not be able to dictate what goes in my changelog. If I believe it's relevant info for my userbase that I'm working around some Clang compiler bug with some change, I should be able to say it. What kind of dystopian platform is Apple running where police have to look through everything you type about your own product to make sure you haven't written any thoughtcrimes?
  - zepto 6y ago
    Apple can’t dictate what goes in your changelog. What we are talking about here is the App Store release notes, on Apple’s site and storefront. They can indeed dictate what goes there. The fact that release notes are even displayed there is because they made a facility for that. You can publish your changelog on your own website.
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      I’m failing to see the distinction you’re drawing between a changelog and release notes?
      - zepto 6y ago
        One is a business communication made via the App Store, and the other is something you can publish wherever you choose.
        echelon 6y ago
        > the other is something you can publish wherever you choose. Apple has designed an illegal system, and the DOJ is going to break them up or force them to open wide. The hoops they make people jump through are ridiculous and entirely unfair. They've made people bark like a seal for far too long.
        zepto 6y ago
        Whether true or not, this is irrelevant to the thread. But worth pointing out that almost all storefronts control what they allow vendors to write there. There is nothing illegal about this, and if this is making people bark like a seal, all retailers and all app stores do it.
        judge2020 6y ago
        Exactly. Walmart very well could tell their suppliers "You can't put a paper within the box saying that the price is $5 more since our logistics software misplayed your deliveries for a whole month" even if it's true.
        saagarjha 6y ago
        Sure, but in spirit I would put the same information in both. Apple's rules on that field are just strange–when a new version of iOS goes into GM out you cannot mention it in your release notes (added support for iOS 14!), which really just makes no sense. It's presented as a place to put your update notes except it's really a strange field where you put something that is similar to your update notes but edited to comply with unwritten guidelines that Apple has created that you can only really know if you read Twitter and see what kinds of things Apple will let you put there.
        6y ago
  - nexuist 6y ago
    > What kind of dystopian platform is Apple running where police have to look through everything you type about your own product to make sure you haven't written any thoughtcrimes? What do you mean? Do you think it would be fair for Apple to allow developers to serve change logs with racial slurs or political conspiracies to young users? Literal toddlers interact with the App Store on a daily basis. The release notes are not a place to spew bile, so obviously they must be moderated to some degree. We can argue over the acceptability of them trying to blame their failings onto an innocent developer (if that was actually the case), but obviously you should not be allowed to type whatever you want in a text field that gets served to their customers.
- aaomidi 6y ago
  Yeah and I've never felt the need to go make a policy for them to not be allowed to do that.
  - zepto 6y ago
    Sure but I presume you aren’t running a platform like Apple’s.
- ben_w 6y ago
  On the other hand, the most recent Duolingo update reads: """Our mascot owl, Duo, is trading in his usual diet of mice for bugs this week. Yup, we’re squashing those pesky bugs to make the experience better for all of you. For more Duolingo news, contests and product releases, follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram @duolingo.""" which doesn’t exactly scream “user-relevant information” to me, but does say “this is PR”.
  - jiofih 6y ago
    This is the format of almost every mainstream app update now - completely devoid of any useful information. If this is what Apple wanted why even keep it around?
est31 6y ago
The way Apple distinguishes itself from the masses of cheap phone manufacturers with their ultra low margins is through its premium brand. The idea that Apple "just works" is part of this brand, and they fight against any claim that it doesn't, even if it's true. It's very important to them to push the idea that their operating systems are the best ones available into the brains of their users. In some industries, like the music production industry, if you don't have an Apple device, you'll be laughed out of the room. The brand is probably the single most valuable asset that Apple possesses.
- echelon 6y ago
  Apple the brand is becoming synonymous with the Gestapo.
  - azinman2 6y ago
    Hyperbole much?
  - dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
    Please, could we stop using analogies using Nazi terminology whenever we strongly disagree with someone? As a consequence of Hitlers actions, hundreds of millions of people died. As a consequence of Apple's actions, many people are upset. The two aren't comparable. When I hear Nazi analogies every day, these words become meaningless.
    - suprfsat 6y ago
      1000 dead: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Belarus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Belarus more than 450 documented cases of torture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_issues_related_to_the_suppression_of_the_2020_Belarusian_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_issues_related_to... Apple's censorship of Telegram is condoning this.
      - dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
srtjstjsj 6y ago
It's not "your own app". It's Apple's Experience, and you are paid a commission on revenue generated by code you write for Apple to use. You are like a screenwriter or set deeigner, Apple is the director and producer.
- eitland 6y ago
  This is actually a funny and interesting way to look at it. This might be a way for Apple to continue doing what they do and get away with it. (AFAIK: It is not what they currently say so they'll have to change their terms and conditions before they use this in court ;-)
  - 6510 6y ago
    You also don't own the device.

by umvi 6y ago

Wow, that story made me more angry than it should have. Why the heck should Apple be allowed to police your own app's changelog? "Because they can" is probably the reason.

zepto 6y ago

Have you never heard an inexperienced developer incorrectly blame the platform or the tools for their own bugs?

umvi 6y ago
Yes, so what? It comes back to the other article on HN about YouTube arbitrating truth. Apple should not be able to dictate what goes in my changelog. If I believe it's relevant info for my userbase that I'm working around some Clang compiler bug with some change, I should be able to say it. What kind of dystopian platform is Apple running where police have to look through everything you type about your own product to make sure you haven't written any thoughtcrimes?
- zepto 6y ago
  Apple can’t dictate what goes in your changelog. What we are talking about here is the App Store release notes, on Apple’s site and storefront. They can indeed dictate what goes there. The fact that release notes are even displayed there is because they made a facility for that. You can publish your changelog on your own website.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    I’m failing to see the distinction you’re drawing between a changelog and release notes?
    - zepto 6y ago
      One is a business communication made via the App Store, and the other is something you can publish wherever you choose.
      - echelon 6y ago
        > the other is something you can publish wherever you choose. Apple has designed an illegal system, and the DOJ is going to break them up or force them to open wide. The hoops they make people jump through are ridiculous and entirely unfair. They've made people bark like a seal for far too long.
        zepto 6y ago
        Whether true or not, this is irrelevant to the thread. But worth pointing out that almost all storefronts control what they allow vendors to write there. There is nothing illegal about this, and if this is making people bark like a seal, all retailers and all app stores do it.
        judge2020 6y ago
        Exactly. Walmart very well could tell their suppliers "You can't put a paper within the box saying that the price is $5 more since our logistics software misplayed your deliveries for a whole month" even if it's true.
      - saagarjha 6y ago
        Sure, but in spirit I would put the same information in both. Apple's rules on that field are just strange–when a new version of iOS goes into GM out you cannot mention it in your release notes (added support for iOS 14!), which really just makes no sense. It's presented as a place to put your update notes except it's really a strange field where you put something that is similar to your update notes but edited to comply with unwritten guidelines that Apple has created that you can only really know if you read Twitter and see what kinds of things Apple will let you put there.
        6y ago
- nexuist 6y ago
  > What kind of dystopian platform is Apple running where police have to look through everything you type about your own product to make sure you haven't written any thoughtcrimes? What do you mean? Do you think it would be fair for Apple to allow developers to serve change logs with racial slurs or political conspiracies to young users? Literal toddlers interact with the App Store on a daily basis. The release notes are not a place to spew bile, so obviously they must be moderated to some degree. We can argue over the acceptability of them trying to blame their failings onto an innocent developer (if that was actually the case), but obviously you should not be allowed to type whatever you want in a text field that gets served to their customers.
aaomidi 6y ago
Yeah and I've never felt the need to go make a policy for them to not be allowed to do that.
- zepto 6y ago
  Sure but I presume you aren’t running a platform like Apple’s.
ben_w 6y ago
On the other hand, the most recent Duolingo update reads: """Our mascot owl, Duo, is trading in his usual diet of mice for bugs this week. Yup, we’re squashing those pesky bugs to make the experience better for all of you. For more Duolingo news, contests and product releases, follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram @duolingo.""" which doesn’t exactly scream “user-relevant information” to me, but does say “this is PR”.
- jiofih 6y ago
  This is the format of almost every mainstream app update now - completely devoid of any useful information. If this is what Apple wanted why even keep it around?

est31 6y ago

The way Apple distinguishes itself from the masses of cheap phone manufacturers with their ultra low margins is through its premium brand. The idea that Apple "just works" is part of this brand, and they fight against any claim that it doesn't, even if it's true. It's very important to them to push the idea that their operating systems are the best ones available into the brains of their users. In some industries, like the music production industry, if you don't have an Apple device, you'll be laughed out of the room. The brand is probably the single most valuable asset that Apple possesses.

echelon 6y ago
Apple the brand is becoming synonymous with the Gestapo.
- azinman2 6y ago
  Hyperbole much?
- dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
  Please, could we stop using analogies using Nazi terminology whenever we strongly disagree with someone? As a consequence of Hitlers actions, hundreds of millions of people died. As a consequence of Apple's actions, many people are upset. The two aren't comparable. When I hear Nazi analogies every day, these words become meaningless.
  - suprfsat 6y ago
    1000 dead: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Belarus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Belarus more than 450 documented cases of torture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_issues_related_to_the_suppression_of_the_2020_Belarusian_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_issues_related_to... Apple's censorship of Telegram is condoning this.
    - dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago

srtjstjsj 6y ago

It's not "your own app". It's Apple's Experience, and you are paid a commission on revenue generated by code you write for Apple to use. You are like a screenwriter or set deeigner, Apple is the director and producer.

eitland 6y ago
This is actually a funny and interesting way to look at it. This might be a way for Apple to continue doing what they do and get away with it. (AFAIK: It is not what they currently say so they'll have to change their terms and conditions before they use this in court ;-)
- 6510 6y ago
  You also don't own the device.