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And they were denying it a week earlier: https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1217043229427761152 https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1217043229427761152

by nomdep 6y ago

hef19898 6y ago
And last year in January they didn't even talk about it. Why would we listen anyway? I hope that's not your point.
- nl 6y ago
  Do you mean in January 2020? They were talking about it a lot then: they had daily situation reports on the WHO website. I know because I was reading them!
  - hef19898 6y ago
    No January 2019. As a reply to the WHO revising their opinion on human-to-human transmission commment above. I read the situation reports a lot as well, I guess I'll start doing so again.
    - nl 6y ago
      There was no Covid in Jan 2019(??) I have no idea what you are arguing.
      - hef19898 6y ago
        Regarding the GP, attacking the WHO for changing their minds regarding human to human transmission as he found a statement dating before the one you shared. Doing that would also allow you to attack the WHO for not talking about COVID-19 before it struck, same logic and just as wrong.
        nl 6y ago
        Oh, so you are agreeing with me? Ok then!
        hef19898 6y ago
        Oh, I totally agree with you! Sometimes I just can help my sarcasm...
nl 6y ago
Their actual message is exactly what you should want and expect from a science based organisation: Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China🇨🇳. There is nothing false or misleading, and they updated the public as new information came to light. I can't emphasis enough how correct this behaviour is for a scientific organisation. And for the sceptics who will claim China was covering something up: why didn't they shut down Wuhan until 23 Jan?
- AlchemistCamp 6y ago
  The Taiwanese CDC shared evidence in December that strongly suggested human-to-human transmission[1]. The WHO chose not to share this communication and went further by publishing the above tweet which suggested the exact opposite. Their co-lead on COVID-19 even went so far as to hang up on a journalist[2] who asked about Taiwan. If this is your idea of "correct behaviour" for a scientific org, I cringe to imagine your vision of a poorly run one. [1] https://www.cdc.gov.tw/En/Bulletin/Detail/PAD-lbwDHeN_bLa-viBOuw?typeid=158 https://www.cdc.gov.tw/En/Bulletin/Detail/PAD-lbwDHeN_bLa-vi.... [2] https://youtu.be/fASh2_RzMuE https://youtu.be/fASh2_RzMuE
  - nl 6y ago
    I'm not defending WHOs treatment of Taiwan. I think that incident was atrocious. Your link says (about the Dec 31 email): "Public health professionals could discern from this wording that there was a real possibility of human-to-human transmission of the disease. However, because at the time there were as yet no cases of the disease in Taiwan, we could not state directly and conclusively that there had been human-to-human transmission." That's no different to what China or the WHO were saying in this timeframe. The constant "no confirmed human transmission" were because everyone was watching for it. Again, there is no evidence China hid anything here, and Taiwan doesn't say anything different.
    - AlchemistCamp 6y ago
      I apologize if this is presumptuous of me, but I get the impression that you don't live here, haven't followed this topic in much detail and probably haven't read anything at all in local media from that time frame. Here's more background: Dr. Li Wenliang's email warning colleagues about the outbreak was sent on December 30th. Multiple Taiwanese doctors were working in Wuhan at that time. Taiwan's very early and very small outbreak was from people evacuated from Wuhan. The CDC warnings weren't about what was seen in the Covid positive evacuees in Taiwan. The warnings were based on direct experience in Wuhan and they did suggest human-to-human transmission. There was no hard proof, but there was a great deal of circumstantial evidence. Yes, it's possible Taiwan's CDC was overly suspicious due to memories of how SARS was covered up in 2003. However, given the way epidemics spread, the wiser course is to take circumstantial evidence of transmission very seriously.
nomdep 6y ago
I forgot that anything directly or indirectly critical to China is quickly downvoted here.

And they were denying it a week earlier: https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1217043229427761152 https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1217043229427761152

by nomdep 6y ago

And they were denying it a week earlier: https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1217043229427761152 https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1217043229427761152

hef19898 6y ago

And last year in January they didn't even talk about it. Why would we listen anyway? I hope that's not your point.

nl 6y ago
Do you mean in January 2020? They were talking about it a lot then: they had daily situation reports on the WHO website. I know because I was reading them!
- hef19898 6y ago
  No January 2019. As a reply to the WHO revising their opinion on human-to-human transmission commment above. I read the situation reports a lot as well, I guess I'll start doing so again.
  - nl 6y ago
    There was no Covid in Jan 2019(??) I have no idea what you are arguing.
    - hef19898 6y ago
      Regarding the GP, attacking the WHO for changing their minds regarding human to human transmission as he found a statement dating before the one you shared. Doing that would also allow you to attack the WHO for not talking about COVID-19 before it struck, same logic and just as wrong.
      - nl 6y ago
        Oh, so you are agreeing with me? Ok then!
        hef19898 6y ago
        Oh, I totally agree with you! Sometimes I just can help my sarcasm...

nl 6y ago

Their actual message is exactly what you should want and expect from a science based organisation: Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China🇨🇳. There is nothing false or misleading, and they updated the public as new information came to light. I can't emphasis enough how correct this behaviour is for a scientific organisation. And for the sceptics who will claim China was covering something up: why didn't they shut down Wuhan until 23 Jan?

AlchemistCamp 6y ago
The Taiwanese CDC shared evidence in December that strongly suggested human-to-human transmission[1]. The WHO chose not to share this communication and went further by publishing the above tweet which suggested the exact opposite. Their co-lead on COVID-19 even went so far as to hang up on a journalist[2] who asked about Taiwan. If this is your idea of "correct behaviour" for a scientific org, I cringe to imagine your vision of a poorly run one. [1] https://www.cdc.gov.tw/En/Bulletin/Detail/PAD-lbwDHeN_bLa-viBOuw?typeid=158 https://www.cdc.gov.tw/En/Bulletin/Detail/PAD-lbwDHeN_bLa-vi.... [2] https://youtu.be/fASh2_RzMuE https://youtu.be/fASh2_RzMuE
- nl 6y ago
  I'm not defending WHOs treatment of Taiwan. I think that incident was atrocious. Your link says (about the Dec 31 email): "Public health professionals could discern from this wording that there was a real possibility of human-to-human transmission of the disease. However, because at the time there were as yet no cases of the disease in Taiwan, we could not state directly and conclusively that there had been human-to-human transmission." That's no different to what China or the WHO were saying in this timeframe. The constant "no confirmed human transmission" were because everyone was watching for it. Again, there is no evidence China hid anything here, and Taiwan doesn't say anything different.
  - AlchemistCamp 6y ago
    I apologize if this is presumptuous of me, but I get the impression that you don't live here, haven't followed this topic in much detail and probably haven't read anything at all in local media from that time frame. Here's more background: Dr. Li Wenliang's email warning colleagues about the outbreak was sent on December 30th. Multiple Taiwanese doctors were working in Wuhan at that time. Taiwan's very early and very small outbreak was from people evacuated from Wuhan. The CDC warnings weren't about what was seen in the Covid positive evacuees in Taiwan. The warnings were based on direct experience in Wuhan and they did suggest human-to-human transmission. There was no hard proof, but there was a great deal of circumstantial evidence. Yes, it's possible Taiwan's CDC was overly suspicious due to memories of how SARS was covered up in 2003. However, given the way epidemics spread, the wiser course is to take circumstantial evidence of transmission very seriously.

nomdep 6y ago

I forgot that anything directly or indirectly critical to China is quickly downvoted here.