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What can the world realistically do? China right now has enormous power over the rest of the world (by means of economical dependency), and I don't see that dec

What can the world realistically do? China right now has enormous power over the rest of the world (by means of economical dependency), and I don't see that decreasing. To be clear, I certainly support human rights, but I personally see the situation as so bad, that I'm worried about how China's influence will extend to the West.

burntoutfire 6y ago
Trade embargos? Small ones at first, with an clear plan to plan and timeline to escalate if there's no change. Of course, it would mean putting the lives of those poor people our over our comfort, which means it won't happen.
- pizza234 6y ago
  IMO, the case of the Nobel prize and salmon ban showed the opposite - that is inexpensive for China to punish a country, but not the opposite. A long analysis has actually been written on this topic: https://www.cmi.no/publications/5805-too-big-to-fault https://www.cmi.no/publications/5805-too-big-to-fault While on one hand, a coordinated punishment may be effective, on the other hand, I think China has the power to buy other countries' consent step by step. Additionally, I think China would never relent; doing so would be an admission of guilt, which is poisonous for their regime.
  - burntoutfire 6y ago
    > Additionally, I think China would never relent; doing so would be an admission of guilt, which is poisonous for their regime. They could spin it in the same manner as Putin - "those degenerate Western bastards are against us, we need to be strong and united to face them etc.".
0xfaded 6y ago
If anything the last year has shown that the economy is more reconfigurable than what was previously thought. Meanwhile, new green-dealers are promoting moving manufacturing back to Europe to deal with the climate crisis. One solution is to use the ECB to print money, which is fine so long as the new money is used to build public assets and the majority of the new money is absorbed by labor. The core competency of EU innovation programs is micromanaging hourly expenditures. I'm sure some of that machinery could be moved over to building public assets in a way that doesn't overly enrich the holders of capital.
computerfriend 6y ago
Sanctions, punitive trade policy, rules about government contracts going to Chinese companies, participation in FoN and similar exercises, issuing arrest warrants, making this a factor in immigration / visa / asylum decisions (favourable to those affected, unfavourable to those responsible), etc. But step one would be just to raise it in a diplomatic context. Most of the world seems unwilling to do even that.
asplake 6y ago
Commit itself loudly, meaningfully, and practically to minimising that dependency
oxymoran 6y ago
> but I personally see the situation as so bad, that I'm worried about how China's influence will extend to the West. Yes but I fear it’s even worse. Their influence has already extended into the west and has for at least a decade now. Not only are consumers dependent on cheap crap, but Western corporations are dependent on China’s massive market. And politicians are dependent on Western corporations...

burntoutfire 6y ago

Trade embargos? Small ones at first, with an clear plan to plan and timeline to escalate if there's no change. Of course, it would mean putting the lives of those poor people our over our comfort, which means it won't happen.

pizza234 6y ago
IMO, the case of the Nobel prize and salmon ban showed the opposite - that is inexpensive for China to punish a country, but not the opposite. A long analysis has actually been written on this topic: https://www.cmi.no/publications/5805-too-big-to-fault https://www.cmi.no/publications/5805-too-big-to-fault While on one hand, a coordinated punishment may be effective, on the other hand, I think China has the power to buy other countries' consent step by step. Additionally, I think China would never relent; doing so would be an admission of guilt, which is poisonous for their regime.
- burntoutfire 6y ago
  > Additionally, I think China would never relent; doing so would be an admission of guilt, which is poisonous for their regime. They could spin it in the same manner as Putin - "those degenerate Western bastards are against us, we need to be strong and united to face them etc.".

0xfaded 6y ago

If anything the last year has shown that the economy is more reconfigurable than what was previously thought. Meanwhile, new green-dealers are promoting moving manufacturing back to Europe to deal with the climate crisis. One solution is to use the ECB to print money, which is fine so long as the new money is used to build public assets and the majority of the new money is absorbed by labor. The core competency of EU innovation programs is micromanaging hourly expenditures. I'm sure some of that machinery could be moved over to building public assets in a way that doesn't overly enrich the holders of capital.

computerfriend 6y ago

Sanctions, punitive trade policy, rules about government contracts going to Chinese companies, participation in FoN and similar exercises, issuing arrest warrants, making this a factor in immigration / visa / asylum decisions (favourable to those affected, unfavourable to those responsible), etc. But step one would be just to raise it in a diplomatic context. Most of the world seems unwilling to do even that.

asplake 6y ago

Commit itself loudly, meaningfully, and practically to minimising that dependency

oxymoran 6y ago

> but I personally see the situation as so bad, that I'm worried about how China's influence will extend to the West. Yes but I fear it’s even worse. Their influence has already extended into the west and has for at least a decade now. Not only are consumers dependent on cheap crap, but Western corporations are dependent on China’s massive market. And politicians are dependent on Western corporations...