5 ms·

SciTer, HTML/CSS Engine, May Go Open Source via Kickstarter

86 points by vintagedave 6y ago

wlkr 6y ago
This is exciting! I'm surprised that the companies who use it won't contribute towards a BSD release at ~£150k (CA$260k). Unfortunately there is not much time left. > This project will only be funded if it reaches its goal by Sun, October 18 2020 2:34 PM BST.
- Igalze 6y ago
  Good point but the release may not impact their license (OS and premium/business use option). I hope they reach the goal. Amazing to see that this was a one-man-show
Tiberium 6y ago
It's highly unlikely: you can see that the goal is very far. Check out https://sciter.com/forums/topic/open-source-sciter/#post-67604 https://sciter.com/forums/topic/open-source-sciter/#post-676... for Andrew's response to whether Sciter will go open-source if that kickstart will fail.
- vintagedave 6y ago
  Looks like the Kickstarter started in September - sad to see it only get to the front page of HN today. Perhaps the author can extend the Kickstarter date, or HN will help give it visibility to some of the companies that use it.
- pwdisswordfish4 6y ago
  Sciter's author has been thinking* about making it open source for years, but despite saying it, and so frequently, it's not clear that the author has ever been sincere. The real intent of those messages probably has more in common with Steve Jobs's claim that FaceTime was going to be an open standard that any serious commitment to openness: all of the hype, none of the deliverables. So considering all three of (1) the platform, where years of Kickstarter campaigns have failed to produce what was promised, (2) the history of Sciter itself, and (3) the author's claims that it would be delivered approx. 2 months after funding (er...?), it seems very unwise to hitch any hopes to this campaign. I wouldn't be surprised if these exact factors are what has led to the campaign's poor reception.
  - ksec 6y ago
    >The real intent of those messages probably has more in common with Steve Jobs's claim that FaceTime was going to be an open standard that any serious commitment to openness: all of the hype, none of the deliverables. Apple were hit by patent and had to change the way FaceTime work. And they it ends up never opening it.
    - pwdisswordfish4 6y ago
      What is the the relationship between "had to change the way FaceTime work[s]" and "never opening it"?
petters 6y ago
> Permanent (lifetime) guarantied [sic] real-time technical support (Skype, Slack, etc.) Seems hard to guarantee something like this? Very cheap for a business, if actually guaranteed.
- jansan 6y ago
  What is the definition of lifetime? Until you die, until the company goes out of business, or until the product's lifecycle ends? If it is the latter, there is not much risk involved.
m12k 6y ago
Well, it's kickstarter, so if the goal fails it doesn't cost anything. So I'm chipping in $20 - I don't need this for anything particular, but I'd like to see more open source in this space (maybe we can eventually get a replacement for electron that doesn't eat 50% of my ram?)
rootlocus 6y ago
There's another project called SciTE https://www.scintilla.org/SciTE.html https://www.scintilla.org/SciTE.html which has nothing to do with this one, and although it's pretty old (first recorded version is from 30th March 1999), it still gets updates (last version is from 11 September 2020). SciTE takes its name from Scintilla Text Editor. I have no idea where SciTer takes its name from.
- cedex12 6y ago
  “Smart Client, next ITERation” it seems
- chrismorgan 6y ago
  Sciter does not have a capital T. I have no real idea where OP got that capital from, but confusion with SciTE seems possible.
  - vintagedave 6y ago
    > I have no real idea where OP got that capital from, but confusion with SciTE seems possible. That would be me being confused, exactly as you wrote. By coincidence, I had tabs open on SciTE and Scintilla as well.
dr_faustus 6y ago
Well, the use of this framework seems to "enable" developers to create some of the worst designed, resource wasting abominations in the realm of "native" applications. So I'd rather have that stay closed source.
- 02020202 6y ago
  hehe :D
- cy_hauser 6y ago
  Have you used it? Compared it to another GUI framework? Which cross platform desktop GUI frameworks do you consider better?
02020202 6y ago
so this guy has been selling his project for 14 years and now he wants 100k to make it open source? lol. can't blame him for trying to make the most out of it...sounds like the clientele is slowly dying out so this is the hale merry to make buck i guess :)
giancarlostoro 6y ago
I think Sciter is fantastic I have yet to try it personally but I would love to see it open sourced even if its just a paid license for the source (I think that approach might be better?). Dont judge it for what it can do but for how it does it. It is not as bloated as Electron and company because the author ditched some things from the DOM that are legacy carryovers. Additionally you dont use JS with Sciter but you plug your preferred language to it. It is purely a UI renderer that so happens to support HTML and CSS. I think the only one similar I have seen is potentially Azul.rs but I dont remember if Azul has HTML/CSS support. Edit: I realize why the authors doing a kickstarter. It is to ensure the income necessary to devote time and effort towards open sourcing the project itself.
esprehn 6y ago
Cobalt is another project in this space that's open source: https://cobalt.foo/ https://cobalt.foo/ It's a super light weight browser that implements a subset of the web for building apps. From what I remember it's so light weight it can run the YouTube TV app on a PS3. Hopefully Sciter will open source as well, having more web engines for folks to learn from and build on is good for the world.
- NetOpWibby 6y ago
  Cobalt is a Google thing, which means it’ll be defunct before it gets a chance to grow.
kemonocode 6y ago
Shame it was posted here so late (or if it was posted before, that it got attention this late) as the Kickstarter may have found better success that way. That said, that developer has never been too committed to the idea of open sourcing his work and to me seems like an attempt at double-dipping and in fact I would not be surprised if it ended just being a crippled "open core" release even if he got the $100k because the license money is just that great. Disclaimer: We used to license and use Sciter as part of an internal product at my workplace, we ended up switching to Electron so it was far more easily maintainable, less limited and with no more licensing concerns.
- UnnoTed 6y ago
  It was posted before[1], but there was just the name Sciter in the title, if the post had something like "Sciter engine: Electron alternative going open source" it would have had much more views. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24493575 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24493575
  - andrewmcwatters 6y ago
    Sciter is much older than Electron.

86 points by vintagedave 6y ago

wlkr 6y ago

This is exciting! I'm surprised that the companies who use it won't contribute towards a BSD release at ~£150k (CA$260k). Unfortunately there is not much time left. > This project will only be funded if it reaches its goal by Sun, October 18 2020 2:34 PM BST.

Igalze 6y ago
Good point but the release may not impact their license (OS and premium/business use option). I hope they reach the goal. Amazing to see that this was a one-man-show

Tiberium 6y ago

It's highly unlikely: you can see that the goal is very far. Check out https://sciter.com/forums/topic/open-source-sciter/#post-67604 https://sciter.com/forums/topic/open-source-sciter/#post-676... for Andrew's response to whether Sciter will go open-source if that kickstart will fail.

vintagedave 6y ago
Looks like the Kickstarter started in September - sad to see it only get to the front page of HN today. Perhaps the author can extend the Kickstarter date, or HN will help give it visibility to some of the companies that use it.
pwdisswordfish4 6y ago
Sciter's author has been thinking* about making it open source for years, but despite saying it, and so frequently, it's not clear that the author has ever been sincere. The real intent of those messages probably has more in common with Steve Jobs's claim that FaceTime was going to be an open standard that any serious commitment to openness: all of the hype, none of the deliverables. So considering all three of (1) the platform, where years of Kickstarter campaigns have failed to produce what was promised, (2) the history of Sciter itself, and (3) the author's claims that it would be delivered approx. 2 months after funding (er...?), it seems very unwise to hitch any hopes to this campaign. I wouldn't be surprised if these exact factors are what has led to the campaign's poor reception.
- ksec 6y ago
  >The real intent of those messages probably has more in common with Steve Jobs's claim that FaceTime was going to be an open standard that any serious commitment to openness: all of the hype, none of the deliverables. Apple were hit by patent and had to change the way FaceTime work. And they it ends up never opening it.
  - pwdisswordfish4 6y ago
    What is the the relationship between "had to change the way FaceTime work[s]" and "never opening it"?

petters 6y ago

> Permanent (lifetime) guarantied [sic] real-time technical support (Skype, Slack, etc.) Seems hard to guarantee something like this? Very cheap for a business, if actually guaranteed.

jansan 6y ago
What is the definition of lifetime? Until you die, until the company goes out of business, or until the product's lifecycle ends? If it is the latter, there is not much risk involved.

m12k 6y ago

Well, it's kickstarter, so if the goal fails it doesn't cost anything. So I'm chipping in $20 - I don't need this for anything particular, but I'd like to see more open source in this space (maybe we can eventually get a replacement for electron that doesn't eat 50% of my ram?)

rootlocus 6y ago

There's another project called SciTE https://www.scintilla.org/SciTE.html https://www.scintilla.org/SciTE.html which has nothing to do with this one, and although it's pretty old (first recorded version is from 30th March 1999), it still gets updates (last version is from 11 September 2020). SciTE takes its name from Scintilla Text Editor. I have no idea where SciTer takes its name from.

cedex12 6y ago
“Smart Client, next ITERation” it seems
chrismorgan 6y ago
Sciter does not have a capital T. I have no real idea where OP got that capital from, but confusion with SciTE seems possible.
- vintagedave 6y ago
  > I have no real idea where OP got that capital from, but confusion with SciTE seems possible. That would be me being confused, exactly as you wrote. By coincidence, I had tabs open on SciTE and Scintilla as well.

dr_faustus 6y ago

Well, the use of this framework seems to "enable" developers to create some of the worst designed, resource wasting abominations in the realm of "native" applications. So I'd rather have that stay closed source.

02020202 6y ago
hehe :D
cy_hauser 6y ago
Have you used it? Compared it to another GUI framework? Which cross platform desktop GUI frameworks do you consider better?

02020202 6y ago

so this guy has been selling his project for 14 years and now he wants 100k to make it open source? lol. can't blame him for trying to make the most out of it...sounds like the clientele is slowly dying out so this is the hale merry to make buck i guess :)

giancarlostoro 6y ago

I think Sciter is fantastic I have yet to try it personally but I would love to see it open sourced even if its just a paid license for the source (I think that approach might be better?). Dont judge it for what it can do but for how it does it. It is not as bloated as Electron and company because the author ditched some things from the DOM that are legacy carryovers. Additionally you dont use JS with Sciter but you plug your preferred language to it. It is purely a UI renderer that so happens to support HTML and CSS. I think the only one similar I have seen is potentially Azul.rs but I dont remember if Azul has HTML/CSS support. Edit: I realize why the authors doing a kickstarter. It is to ensure the income necessary to devote time and effort towards open sourcing the project itself.

esprehn 6y ago

Cobalt is another project in this space that's open source: https://cobalt.foo/ https://cobalt.foo/ It's a super light weight browser that implements a subset of the web for building apps. From what I remember it's so light weight it can run the YouTube TV app on a PS3. Hopefully Sciter will open source as well, having more web engines for folks to learn from and build on is good for the world.

NetOpWibby 6y ago
Cobalt is a Google thing, which means it’ll be defunct before it gets a chance to grow.

kemonocode 6y ago

Shame it was posted here so late (or if it was posted before, that it got attention this late) as the Kickstarter may have found better success that way. That said, that developer has never been too committed to the idea of open sourcing his work and to me seems like an attempt at double-dipping and in fact I would not be surprised if it ended just being a crippled "open core" release even if he got the $100k because the license money is just that great. Disclaimer: We used to license and use Sciter as part of an internal product at my workplace, we ended up switching to Electron so it was far more easily maintainable, less limited and with no more licensing concerns.

UnnoTed 6y ago
It was posted before[1], but there was just the name Sciter in the title, if the post had something like "Sciter engine: Electron alternative going open source" it would have had much more views. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24493575 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24493575
- andrewmcwatters 6y ago
  Sciter is much older than Electron.