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> Would Google be happy if one of their employee made a statement... Would the worker be happy if their boss tells them how to speak, what to speak, and what t

> Would Google be happy if one of their employee made a statement... Would the worker be happy if their boss tells them how to speak, what to speak, and what they can't speak about? Honestly, Googlers work very hard. This isn't as big of an issue as people are making it out to be. How do you want foster freedom and lessen control/restrictions? Seriously. The idea that we should limit speech...is a very dangerous path to even think about. All thoughtful points are moot compared to how those policies can be abused and destroy an entire civilization. Nazi Germany wasn't too long ago. China restricted a doctor's speech about sounding the alarm on Covid19 (so it's more recent too). If society (a collection of individuals) continue to think that it's "okay" to restrict someone's opinions (for any justification), they make society weaker. Truth wins out. Not authoritarianism. But...back to my main point of responding to you. Googler (and other tech companies) aren't a DC think tank. They're building and shipping things. They work hard. And those that are highly skilled, want the autonomy in work. If you restrict that autonomy, you restrict your talent pool of workers. Maybe you think that's a good choice (Coinbase would agree) but...in the long-term, IMHO, freedom is more powerful than control.

shadowgovt 6y ago
> Truth wins out. I think that's a great philosophy for structuring a democratic republic form of government, but trying to apply that philosophy universally to all circumstances and all human interaction leaves it a giant untested hypothesis. It would be nice if truth always won out. That would be cool. Insufficient data to say for sure that it does.
- tytso 6y ago
  Even for a democratic country, the problem is that sometimes it takes too long for "Truth to win out". We're seeing this more and more with social media and "anyone can publish" combined with the speed of the internet. Sure, the truth may eventually win out regarding whether or not drinking bleach is a good idea, but several people have gotten badly hurt and/or died before the "truth won out". Or consider how many innocent children may have died due to the anti-vaxxers? A related aphorism comes to mind. "The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent." Consider this quote from a recent NY Times article[1] "These scholars argue something that may seem unsettling to Americans: that perhaps our way of thinking about free speech is not the best way. At the very least, we should understand that it isn’t the only way. Other democracies, in Europe and elsewhere, have taken a different approach. Despite more regulations on speech, these countries remain democratic; in fact, they have created better conditions for their citizenry to sort what’s true from what’s not and to make informed decisions about what they want their societies to be. Here in the United States, meanwhile, we’re drowning in lies." [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/13/magazine/free-speech.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/13/magazine/free-speech.html
  - heimatau 6y ago
    > the problem is that sometimes it takes too long Yes but with enough people whom build tools that amplify signal. Then the people will learn. I'm hopeful we'll shorten this delay as we age.
    - shadowgovt 6y ago
      I haven't seen much evidence yet that the tools we're building can discern signal from noise, though they sure can amplify. Indeed, people in this forum often seem to call attempts to discern signal from noise "censorship." Edit: turns out I didn't have to wait long for a concrete example of that to come up. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24782944 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24782944
  - fpmask10 6y ago
    You would not have Google salaries in Europe. Coming from a Googler, this feels like you are pulling up the ladder. If Googlers feel that strong about inequality, why not give away your fortune to social causes?
  - rmrfstar 6y ago
    Remember this [1]? What happened? [1] https://cypherpunks.venona.com https://cypherpunks.venona.com

shadowgovt 6y ago

> Truth wins out. I think that's a great philosophy for structuring a democratic republic form of government, but trying to apply that philosophy universally to all circumstances and all human interaction leaves it a giant untested hypothesis. It would be nice if truth always won out. That would be cool. Insufficient data to say for sure that it does.

tytso 6y ago
Even for a democratic country, the problem is that sometimes it takes too long for "Truth to win out". We're seeing this more and more with social media and "anyone can publish" combined with the speed of the internet. Sure, the truth may eventually win out regarding whether or not drinking bleach is a good idea, but several people have gotten badly hurt and/or died before the "truth won out". Or consider how many innocent children may have died due to the anti-vaxxers? A related aphorism comes to mind. "The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent." Consider this quote from a recent NY Times article[1] "These scholars argue something that may seem unsettling to Americans: that perhaps our way of thinking about free speech is not the best way. At the very least, we should understand that it isn’t the only way. Other democracies, in Europe and elsewhere, have taken a different approach. Despite more regulations on speech, these countries remain democratic; in fact, they have created better conditions for their citizenry to sort what’s true from what’s not and to make informed decisions about what they want their societies to be. Here in the United States, meanwhile, we’re drowning in lies." [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/13/magazine/free-speech.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/13/magazine/free-speech.html
- heimatau 6y ago
  > the problem is that sometimes it takes too long Yes but with enough people whom build tools that amplify signal. Then the people will learn. I'm hopeful we'll shorten this delay as we age.
  - shadowgovt 6y ago
    I haven't seen much evidence yet that the tools we're building can discern signal from noise, though they sure can amplify. Indeed, people in this forum often seem to call attempts to discern signal from noise "censorship." Edit: turns out I didn't have to wait long for a concrete example of that to come up. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24782944 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24782944
- fpmask10 6y ago
  You would not have Google salaries in Europe. Coming from a Googler, this feels like you are pulling up the ladder. If Googlers feel that strong about inequality, why not give away your fortune to social causes?
- rmrfstar 6y ago
  Remember this [1]? What happened? [1] https://cypherpunks.venona.com https://cypherpunks.venona.com