5 ms·

disinformation is a dog whistle for censorship, but fake news is...? Censorship for thee but not for me.

easterncalculus 6y ago
"Fake news" is a call to criticism. The amount of people bringing up "fake news" and calling for say, CNN, to not be able to report at all is minimal. Comparatively you can't have a conversation about "disinformation" without talking about social media companies' responsibility to delete or hide content.
- nemothekid 6y ago
  Ah ok, when Trump says a negative article about him is "fake news" it's criticism, but when "disinformation" comes out about Biden it's a call for censorship? Am I insane for seeing the dissonance here?
  - p1necone 6y ago
    You're not insane. Don't fall into the trap of thinking these people don't see the hypocrisy in what they're saying. Gaslighting and projection is all part of the alt right playbook.
    - logarhythmic 6y ago
      Are you really concluding those commenters are "alt right" based off of what they said? I find that bizarre
  - refurb 6y ago
    One of them is saying “it’s not true” and one of them is saying “we should stop the public from seeing that”.
    - nobody9999 6y ago
      >One of them is saying “it’s not true” and one of them is saying “we should stop the public from seeing that”. In this case, who is saying "we should stop the public from seeing that?" Not Biden. His campaign folks said "it's not true." I'm unaware of any calls from Biden to censor anything. Ever. Please do correct me if I'm wrong.
  - easterncalculus 6y ago
    I am agreeing with refurb's comment below you. Most people calling "fake news" are trying to convince you to not watch something. Most people calling "disinformation" are trying to convince you that you should not be able to watch something. I'm not taking the side of Trump or anyone at all by saying that criticism is different than censorship, that's just a fact. Your argument is not in good faith if bringing that up to you is considered an implicit support for Trump, or anyone really.
    - nemothekid 6y ago
      >Most people calling "disinformation" are trying to convince you that you should not be able to watch something. I know it's been an insane 4 years, but, for Trump, this isn't true. He said, in his first year, he wanted to stated to take NBC off the air[1]. It's a message that he's been saying since before he took office. Understandably, taking a billion dollar corporation off the air is a lot more difficult than wiping an anonymous poster online, but to imply that "Fake News" is entirely just criticism is just complete ignorance of what the man has been saying for years. >I'm not taking the side of Trump or anyone at all by saying that criticism is different than censorship, that's just a fact. Your argument is not in good faith if bringing that up to you is considered an implicit support for Trump, or anyone really. If someone says the only people screaming for censorship are firmly on the left, how am I supposed to argue that point without focusing on Trump? I'm not bringing this up because I want you to vote Biden or not vote for Trump, but to dispel this notion that "censorship" is exclusively some far left/right tool of oppression. My personal view is that these platform should do whatever they want, just like how HN mods run Hn the way they feel, and no private platform is "obliged" to give you a platform no matter how large they are. Regardless the _government_ should be limited in power to tell private companies in what they should and should not publish. To this day, there has been no _US government_ pressure to "censor" legal political posts - it's been entirely private actors who have taken censorship action. However to suggest that one side is 100% free speech and the other side are coming to take your "free speech" is misrepresenting what both sides. [1] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-nbc-license-ban-tweet-cnn-shut-down-fake-news-threat-latest-a7994861.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...
    - 6y ago
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
ColanR 6y ago
IIRC, fake news was originally used by the left, but co-opted by Trump.
- thinkingemote 6y ago
  Correct but it was basically limited to the obviously fake "russian" troll farms.
- nemothekid 6y ago
  It doesn't matter, the claim "Let's be honest, the only people screaming for censorship are firmly on the left." is demonstrably false.
  - MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
    The left wants to censor conservative voices. The right wants to censor immoral voices.
  - mellosouls 6y ago
    A strange thing to say in a thread commenting on a news item where the left are censoring the right. Again.
    - nemothekid 6y ago
      Today, I flipped a coin and it landed heads, the same as yesterday. Very strange of you to say it would ever land tails.
      - mellosouls 6y ago
        I'm sure that sounds clever to you, but I've no idea what it means or what relevance it has. You said something is "demonstrably false" that is actually happening and is documented in the subject of this whole thread.
        6y ago
MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
Alex Jones touts a lot of nonsense but that doesn't mean the merits of what he's ranting about don't have value. Also as a comedic medium, it's an art form nobody else is doing. He isnt even indecent compared to just full of themselves types. He's just rants on hypothetical nonsense.
- reducesuffering 6y ago
  Strongly object to characterizing Jones as "comedic." His rallies sound like 1930's fascist speeches.[0] [0]https://youtu.be/vL8Dz4mGv1g?t=61 https://youtu.be/vL8Dz4mGv1g?t=61
  - MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
    There are more leftists that take what he says seriously than his own fans. People like him because he's willing to tout nonsense but seem serious. He's literally the Jim Cramer of conservative voices. Everybody who listens to him listens with the foresight that there can both be positive and negative repercussions depending on how much of what they say you'll believe.
mod 6y ago
"Fake news" is an attempt to discredit news stories. It's fundamentally different from disallowing them to be shared.

"Fake news" is a call to criticism. The amount of people bringing up "fake news" and calling for say, CNN, to not be able to report at all is minimal. Comparatively you can't have a conversation about "disinformation" without talking about social media companies' responsibility to delete or hide content.

nemothekid 6y ago
Ah ok, when Trump says a negative article about him is "fake news" it's criticism, but when "disinformation" comes out about Biden it's a call for censorship? Am I insane for seeing the dissonance here?
- p1necone 6y ago
  You're not insane. Don't fall into the trap of thinking these people don't see the hypocrisy in what they're saying. Gaslighting and projection is all part of the alt right playbook.
  - logarhythmic 6y ago
    Are you really concluding those commenters are "alt right" based off of what they said? I find that bizarre
- refurb 6y ago
  One of them is saying “it’s not true” and one of them is saying “we should stop the public from seeing that”.
  - nobody9999 6y ago
    >One of them is saying “it’s not true” and one of them is saying “we should stop the public from seeing that”. In this case, who is saying "we should stop the public from seeing that?" Not Biden. His campaign folks said "it's not true." I'm unaware of any calls from Biden to censor anything. Ever. Please do correct me if I'm wrong.
- easterncalculus 6y ago
  I am agreeing with refurb's comment below you. Most people calling "fake news" are trying to convince you to not watch something. Most people calling "disinformation" are trying to convince you that you should not be able to watch something. I'm not taking the side of Trump or anyone at all by saying that criticism is different than censorship, that's just a fact. Your argument is not in good faith if bringing that up to you is considered an implicit support for Trump, or anyone really.
  - nemothekid 6y ago
    >Most people calling "disinformation" are trying to convince you that you should not be able to watch something. I know it's been an insane 4 years, but, for Trump, this isn't true. He said, in his first year, he wanted to stated to take NBC off the air[1]. It's a message that he's been saying since before he took office. Understandably, taking a billion dollar corporation off the air is a lot more difficult than wiping an anonymous poster online, but to imply that "Fake News" is entirely just criticism is just complete ignorance of what the man has been saying for years. >I'm not taking the side of Trump or anyone at all by saying that criticism is different than censorship, that's just a fact. Your argument is not in good faith if bringing that up to you is considered an implicit support for Trump, or anyone really. If someone says the only people screaming for censorship are firmly on the left, how am I supposed to argue that point without focusing on Trump? I'm not bringing this up because I want you to vote Biden or not vote for Trump, but to dispel this notion that "censorship" is exclusively some far left/right tool of oppression. My personal view is that these platform should do whatever they want, just like how HN mods run Hn the way they feel, and no private platform is "obliged" to give you a platform no matter how large they are. Regardless the _government_ should be limited in power to tell private companies in what they should and should not publish. To this day, there has been no _US government_ pressure to "censor" legal political posts - it's been entirely private actors who have taken censorship action. However to suggest that one side is 100% free speech and the other side are coming to take your "free speech" is misrepresenting what both sides. [1] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-nbc-license-ban-tweet-cnn-shut-down-fake-news-threat-latest-a7994861.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...
  - 6y ago
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

ColanR 6y ago

IIRC, fake news was originally used by the left, but co-opted by Trump.

thinkingemote 6y ago
Correct but it was basically limited to the obviously fake "russian" troll farms.
nemothekid 6y ago
It doesn't matter, the claim "Let's be honest, the only people screaming for censorship are firmly on the left." is demonstrably false.
- MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
  The left wants to censor conservative voices. The right wants to censor immoral voices.
- mellosouls 6y ago
  A strange thing to say in a thread commenting on a news item where the left are censoring the right. Again.
  - nemothekid 6y ago
    Today, I flipped a coin and it landed heads, the same as yesterday. Very strange of you to say it would ever land tails.
    - mellosouls 6y ago
      I'm sure that sounds clever to you, but I've no idea what it means or what relevance it has. You said something is "demonstrably false" that is actually happening and is documented in the subject of this whole thread.
      - 6y ago

MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago

Alex Jones touts a lot of nonsense but that doesn't mean the merits of what he's ranting about don't have value. Also as a comedic medium, it's an art form nobody else is doing. He isnt even indecent compared to just full of themselves types. He's just rants on hypothetical nonsense.

reducesuffering 6y ago
Strongly object to characterizing Jones as "comedic." His rallies sound like 1930's fascist speeches.[0] [0]https://youtu.be/vL8Dz4mGv1g?t=61 https://youtu.be/vL8Dz4mGv1g?t=61
- MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
  There are more leftists that take what he says seriously than his own fans. People like him because he's willing to tout nonsense but seem serious. He's literally the Jim Cramer of conservative voices. Everybody who listens to him listens with the foresight that there can both be positive and negative repercussions depending on how much of what they say you'll believe.

mod 6y ago

"Fake news" is an attempt to discredit news stories. It's fundamentally different from disallowing them to be shared.