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You've pushed this narrative a couple times in these threads that only nerds care. That's like saying only car mechanics care about kind of oil that goes into

by atonse 6y ago

You've pushed this narrative a couple times in these threads that only nerds care. That's like saying only car mechanics care about kind of oil that goes into your car. Yeah I mean nerds care because nerds know the difference. This is not something where nerds caring about e2e is at odds with what everyone benefits from. Better security benefits everyone without taking away from the experience. There's absolutely _nothing_ preventing recording while having end-to-end encryption. It just means the recording happens at one of the ends and can be uploaded. Hell, you could even go as far as storing the encrypted streams, and then decrypt on the device during playback. The keybase people especially have experience with messages that are encrypted so that only a handful of recipients can decrypt it. The POTS line, I'm less sure about. But I'm still a little iffy about it, since everything is VoIP now. But that may not matter.

Spooky23 6y ago
You cannot do cloud recording, which is usually preferable for companies. If you look at 100 Webex customers, who have access to a high quality E2E capability, you’ll find 3-5 (outside the military) who have ever used it. You cannot do service-side POTS integration unless you integrate with an on premises PBX and restrict external calls. I’ve been on teams designing high security collaboration environments. E2E is a need for specific use cases only — the user endpoint is usually a bigger risk. Nobody with that need is considering Zoom!
- atonse 6y ago
  Your points are fair enough. I just think e2e should be table stakes these days for any communications platform. The only folks not doing it for consumers are the companies that are addicted to invading our privacy, like Google and Facebook (WhatsApp is e2e but FB has been fighting that for a while). The others are rolling it out. Zoom is being used for schools with kids younger than my 7 year old. And probably telehealth too. These should all be e2e encrypted. Enterprises should be demanding e2e. Especially given the Chinese governments aggressive corporate espionage, I’m shocked that more companies aren’t nervous about having potentially sensitive meetings on Zoom. I know one of my clients expressly forbids their employees from joining Zoom meetings.

by atonse 6y ago

Spooky23 6y ago

You cannot do cloud recording, which is usually preferable for companies. If you look at 100 Webex customers, who have access to a high quality E2E capability, you’ll find 3-5 (outside the military) who have ever used it. You cannot do service-side POTS integration unless you integrate with an on premises PBX and restrict external calls. I’ve been on teams designing high security collaboration environments. E2E is a need for specific use cases only — the user endpoint is usually a bigger risk. Nobody with that need is considering Zoom!

atonse 6y ago
Your points are fair enough. I just think e2e should be table stakes these days for any communications platform. The only folks not doing it for consumers are the companies that are addicted to invading our privacy, like Google and Facebook (WhatsApp is e2e but FB has been fighting that for a while). The others are rolling it out. Zoom is being used for schools with kids younger than my 7 year old. And probably telehealth too. These should all be e2e encrypted. Enterprises should be demanding e2e. Especially given the Chinese governments aggressive corporate espionage, I’m shocked that more companies aren’t nervous about having potentially sensitive meetings on Zoom. I know one of my clients expressly forbids their employees from joining Zoom meetings.