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If they wanted to be enviroment they would have switched to USB-C. I'm personally happy about the lack of charger, all my Apple ones go into a drawer never to

If they wanted to be enviroment they would have switched to USB-C. I'm personally happy about the lack of charger, all my Apple ones go into a drawer never to be seen again.

JoelTheSuperior 6y ago
To be fair I've maintained for a while now that the reason Apple uses lightning on the phones is because it's quite frankly much more durable than USB-C.
- ComputerGuru 6y ago
  Lightning ports are not more durable than USB-C. They are extremely prone to the device-side conductor corroding. USB mini made the mistake of making the device side contain a friction wear item, but USB micro fixed that but had other endurance issues due to its flimsiness. USB C doesn’t suffer from any of those drawbacks.
  - Retric 6y ago
    Everyone I know that got a USB-C phone eventually complained about loose cables. I have been using the same 6 year old lighting cable without issue. On it’s own that doesn’t mean much, but plenty of people dislike USB-C from personal experience.
    - readams 6y ago
      They tend to get dust packed into them that you can fix with a pin.
      - Retric 6y ago
        Good to know, but that would still be a major design issue. Thinking about it, the best common data connector for interment use might be those credit card chip readers. They can handle more connections in a week than you need to recharge your phone in years. Sure they eventually ware out, but that’s in a business setting.
  - stouset 6y ago
    Every USB-C device I’ve ever owned—including my MacBook Pro—has suffered from cables failing to “click” into place and being held in noticeably more loosely than when they were brad new. This has happened from within a few weeks to a few months. And it’s not the simply the cables wearing out: new cables with old devices produces the same behavior. And when I remove my USB-C YubiKey, the port it uses produces the satisfying click (the port is effectively brand new, since the device is never removed in general use). Every single Lightning device I’ve owned still connects as if brand new. The only people I ever seem to hear criticize Lightning are people who don’t even own Apple devices. In my opinion, the form factor of USB-C was a massive mistake (even before considering the nightmare of competing cable incompatibilities) and they should have gone with the form factor of Lightning.
    - kalleboo 6y ago
      I've had lots of trouble with lightning, mostly stemming from the power pin on cables corroding, which then causes arcing in any new device you use it in causing the problem to propagate I've had my iPhone 11 Pro Max inside a Apple smart charging case since day 1, and for the past few months, the connection is really flakey, either one of the plugs is going bad. And its never left the case, the port looks very clean (no dust)
      - stouset 6y ago
        That's a really interesting counter-anecdote. Now that I think about it, my girlfriend has also had two Lightning cables die due to arcing (discovered black markings on the copper contacts) although I'm not sure it if it propagated the way you were saying.
    - ComputerGuru 6y ago
      > The only people I ever seem to hear criticize Lightning are people who don’t even own Apple devices. I've been exclusively iPhone since the 4S and its gorgeous retina display lured me away from my beloved Curve 8900. I am still not as proficient a typist nor as productive a person on the go as I was with my BlackBerry back in 2009. (I did however ditch my rMBP years ago but I don't see how that could factor into a discussion about Lightning ports.)
- sam_bristow 6y ago
  USB-C cables are less durable than lightning cables. But the ports are more durable than lightning ports. I'd say that's a good compromise given the relative costs of a phone vs a cable. That said, my Nokia 6.1 had the USB-C port fail in just a couple of years. Apple's design for the USB-C ports on their laptops looks extra nice and durable though. They are machined out of the aluminium of the case itself.
  - __d 6y ago
    My partner's 12" MacBook has a (single) USB-C port, which has become increasingly loose over time. To the point where she has to listen for the distinctive sound it makes when charging when she plugs it in, and wiggle the connector until it connects properly. So despite the apparent solidity of the machined shell, something in the system wears over time.
    - dkonofalski 6y ago
      I'm not trying to suggest that this is the answer/reason for your particular anecdote but it could have nothing to do with USB-C itself and simply be unnecessary physical wear put on by the user. I think you can find anecdotes in either direction for this particular case.
      - __d 6y ago
        IMO, all connectors have issues, some more, some less. USB-A has proven remarkably good, despite the "insert 3-times" problem, and it's now fairly large size. Lightning is ok -- I have found that cables lose their "snap in" ness after a while, the arcing limits the connector lifetime, and I've snapped the tongue off a few (cheap) cables. USB-B Micro has been pretty good for me, despite the "insert 5 times" problem. USB-C has advantages of "insert-once", and smaller size, but (in my one-off anecdata) can have issues with losing its snug-ness over time. I thought it was notable, since it was with a MacBook -- so not something badly engineered, or cheap, or whatever. I guess my view is that it's not a panacea, and arguably, on a par with things it's replacing.
    - 6y ago
kube-system 6y ago
I doubt that USB-C would be more environmentally friendly. I am fairly sure that the vast majority of people buying new Apple phones today are people that currently have Apple phones. Lots of Apple's customer base have been iPhone loyalists for longer than USB-C has been commonplace.
- koyote 6y ago
  But USB-C is used for literally every other new device and even other Apple devices such as their laptops and ipad pros. It's the defacto standard for charging any kind of electronic device.
  - stouset 6y ago
    Which doesn’t in any way shape or form negate the simple reality that there is currently an ecosystem of perfectly functioning Lightning accessories that will all need to be junked when Apple transitions the iPhone to USB-C.
- fomine3 6y ago
  Anyone who use smartphone accessories may need to buy USB-C cables except a few Lightning models. Proprietary connector is bad for environment.
Shivetya 6y ago
I am in the camp that they should just hand them out to anyone who has purchased a new phone. They cannot cost that much and this way new customers are not out an additional cost. This is easily accomplished at the store and a good retailer could run with the idea to differentiate themselves for a low cost
- stouset 6y ago
  This is one of the few criticisms I can get behind. I think Apple could deflect a lot of criticism here for a comparatively small amount of money by simply offering a standalone brick as a free accessory to anyone purchasing a new phone.
  - dkonofalski 6y ago
    But wouldn't everyone just take one then? And wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of minimizing the e-waste?
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - manicdee 6y ago
      If it's a separate box that then the buyer has the option to say "no". Why would everyone just take one when they have perfectly functioning charging cradles, docks, clocks, and travel accessories? I have a 5-port charger on my desk which charges all my devices and organises them neatly. When we go travelling we have a USB charging bar which plugs into mains and provides half a dozen 2.4A USB ports. We don't need vendor-provided chargers. I expect a vast majority of the market is in a similar position. The only people who would take the free accessory are those that need one, or have a compulsion to acquire free stuff because it's free.
      - stetrain 6y ago
        You'd probably want to charge something like $5 for it still. The power of free vs not free can be surprising.
ryder9 6y ago
they're not switching to USB-C and just continuing with the lightning connector is because they want to have a truly wireless phone at some point (hint being their new mag charger) because they've already put usb-c on ipad and macbooks
samatman 6y ago
They did, the cable which comes with the new phones is USB-C on the charge end. Forcing an ecosystem of about a billion devices to throw away all their cables and accessories isn't environmentally responsible, however you want to spin it.
- epanchin 6y ago
  A billion now, ten billion in a few years. It is responsible, and the sooner the better.
dkonofalski 6y ago
How is that environmentally friendly, though? Switching to USB-C now turns all the existing Lightning accessories into more e-waste and all the existing Lightning cables into e-waste. Given that wired charging will likely go away in a few years, it doesn't really make sense to change everything to USB-C now just to make it go away altogether in either an environmental sense or a business sense.
- epanchin 6y ago
  In a few years, billions more lightening devices will be sold to people that are also buying usb-c devices. Stop the waste now.

If they wanted to be enviroment they would have switched to USB-C. I'm personally happy about the lack of charger, all my Apple ones go into a drawer never to be seen again.

JoelTheSuperior 6y ago

To be fair I've maintained for a while now that the reason Apple uses lightning on the phones is because it's quite frankly much more durable than USB-C.

ComputerGuru 6y ago
Lightning ports are not more durable than USB-C. They are extremely prone to the device-side conductor corroding. USB mini made the mistake of making the device side contain a friction wear item, but USB micro fixed that but had other endurance issues due to its flimsiness. USB C doesn’t suffer from any of those drawbacks.
- Retric 6y ago
  Everyone I know that got a USB-C phone eventually complained about loose cables. I have been using the same 6 year old lighting cable without issue. On it’s own that doesn’t mean much, but plenty of people dislike USB-C from personal experience.
  - readams 6y ago
    They tend to get dust packed into them that you can fix with a pin.
    - Retric 6y ago
      Good to know, but that would still be a major design issue. Thinking about it, the best common data connector for interment use might be those credit card chip readers. They can handle more connections in a week than you need to recharge your phone in years. Sure they eventually ware out, but that’s in a business setting.
- stouset 6y ago
  Every USB-C device I’ve ever owned—including my MacBook Pro—has suffered from cables failing to “click” into place and being held in noticeably more loosely than when they were brad new. This has happened from within a few weeks to a few months. And it’s not the simply the cables wearing out: new cables with old devices produces the same behavior. And when I remove my USB-C YubiKey, the port it uses produces the satisfying click (the port is effectively brand new, since the device is never removed in general use). Every single Lightning device I’ve owned still connects as if brand new. The only people I ever seem to hear criticize Lightning are people who don’t even own Apple devices. In my opinion, the form factor of USB-C was a massive mistake (even before considering the nightmare of competing cable incompatibilities) and they should have gone with the form factor of Lightning.
  - kalleboo 6y ago
    I've had lots of trouble with lightning, mostly stemming from the power pin on cables corroding, which then causes arcing in any new device you use it in causing the problem to propagate I've had my iPhone 11 Pro Max inside a Apple smart charging case since day 1, and for the past few months, the connection is really flakey, either one of the plugs is going bad. And its never left the case, the port looks very clean (no dust)
    - stouset 6y ago
      That's a really interesting counter-anecdote. Now that I think about it, my girlfriend has also had two Lightning cables die due to arcing (discovered black markings on the copper contacts) although I'm not sure it if it propagated the way you were saying.
  - ComputerGuru 6y ago
    > The only people I ever seem to hear criticize Lightning are people who don’t even own Apple devices. I've been exclusively iPhone since the 4S and its gorgeous retina display lured me away from my beloved Curve 8900. I am still not as proficient a typist nor as productive a person on the go as I was with my BlackBerry back in 2009. (I did however ditch my rMBP years ago but I don't see how that could factor into a discussion about Lightning ports.)
sam_bristow 6y ago
USB-C cables are less durable than lightning cables. But the ports are more durable than lightning ports. I'd say that's a good compromise given the relative costs of a phone vs a cable. That said, my Nokia 6.1 had the USB-C port fail in just a couple of years. Apple's design for the USB-C ports on their laptops looks extra nice and durable though. They are machined out of the aluminium of the case itself.
- __d 6y ago
  My partner's 12" MacBook has a (single) USB-C port, which has become increasingly loose over time. To the point where she has to listen for the distinctive sound it makes when charging when she plugs it in, and wiggle the connector until it connects properly. So despite the apparent solidity of the machined shell, something in the system wears over time.
  - dkonofalski 6y ago
    I'm not trying to suggest that this is the answer/reason for your particular anecdote but it could have nothing to do with USB-C itself and simply be unnecessary physical wear put on by the user. I think you can find anecdotes in either direction for this particular case.
    - __d 6y ago
      IMO, all connectors have issues, some more, some less. USB-A has proven remarkably good, despite the "insert 3-times" problem, and it's now fairly large size. Lightning is ok -- I have found that cables lose their "snap in" ness after a while, the arcing limits the connector lifetime, and I've snapped the tongue off a few (cheap) cables. USB-B Micro has been pretty good for me, despite the "insert 5 times" problem. USB-C has advantages of "insert-once", and smaller size, but (in my one-off anecdata) can have issues with losing its snug-ness over time. I thought it was notable, since it was with a MacBook -- so not something badly engineered, or cheap, or whatever. I guess my view is that it's not a panacea, and arguably, on a par with things it's replacing.
  - 6y ago

kube-system 6y ago

I doubt that USB-C would be more environmentally friendly. I am fairly sure that the vast majority of people buying new Apple phones today are people that currently have Apple phones. Lots of Apple's customer base have been iPhone loyalists for longer than USB-C has been commonplace.

koyote 6y ago
But USB-C is used for literally every other new device and even other Apple devices such as their laptops and ipad pros. It's the defacto standard for charging any kind of electronic device.
- stouset 6y ago
  Which doesn’t in any way shape or form negate the simple reality that there is currently an ecosystem of perfectly functioning Lightning accessories that will all need to be junked when Apple transitions the iPhone to USB-C.
fomine3 6y ago
Anyone who use smartphone accessories may need to buy USB-C cables except a few Lightning models. Proprietary connector is bad for environment.

Shivetya 6y ago

I am in the camp that they should just hand them out to anyone who has purchased a new phone. They cannot cost that much and this way new customers are not out an additional cost. This is easily accomplished at the store and a good retailer could run with the idea to differentiate themselves for a low cost

stouset 6y ago
This is one of the few criticisms I can get behind. I think Apple could deflect a lot of criticism here for a comparatively small amount of money by simply offering a standalone brick as a free accessory to anyone purchasing a new phone.
- dkonofalski 6y ago
  But wouldn't everyone just take one then? And wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of minimizing the e-waste?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - manicdee 6y ago
    If it's a separate box that then the buyer has the option to say "no". Why would everyone just take one when they have perfectly functioning charging cradles, docks, clocks, and travel accessories? I have a 5-port charger on my desk which charges all my devices and organises them neatly. When we go travelling we have a USB charging bar which plugs into mains and provides half a dozen 2.4A USB ports. We don't need vendor-provided chargers. I expect a vast majority of the market is in a similar position. The only people who would take the free accessory are those that need one, or have a compulsion to acquire free stuff because it's free.
    - stetrain 6y ago
      You'd probably want to charge something like $5 for it still. The power of free vs not free can be surprising.

ryder9 6y ago

they're not switching to USB-C and just continuing with the lightning connector is because they want to have a truly wireless phone at some point (hint being their new mag charger) because they've already put usb-c on ipad and macbooks

samatman 6y ago

They did, the cable which comes with the new phones is USB-C on the charge end. Forcing an ecosystem of about a billion devices to throw away all their cables and accessories isn't environmentally responsible, however you want to spin it.

epanchin 6y ago
A billion now, ten billion in a few years. It is responsible, and the sooner the better.

dkonofalski 6y ago

How is that environmentally friendly, though? Switching to USB-C now turns all the existing Lightning accessories into more e-waste and all the existing Lightning cables into e-waste. Given that wired charging will likely go away in a few years, it doesn't really make sense to change everything to USB-C now just to make it go away altogether in either an environmental sense or a business sense.

epanchin 6y ago
In a few years, billions more lightening devices will be sold to people that are also buying usb-c devices. Stop the waste now.