5 ms·

Phone subsidies are bad and should go away. Showing the post-subsidy price is dishonest.

samatman 6y ago
If I grant the second premise, could you explain your antipathy to the first? If I want to have a mobile phone, I need a mobile phone plan to go with it. What's wrong with bundling those services for a slightly lower total bill? It strikes me as pretty standard business logic.
- ianai 6y ago
  It begins to muddy the water about what you’re buying. It also leads people to spending more on a phone than they set out or budgeted. It doesn’t seem like much, but it is a shady practice-the kind “old Apple” wouldn’t have done.
  - samatman 6y ago
    Just to be clear, are you saying paying for things on an installment plan is a shady practice? Easy to say if you can afford a new phone up front...
- decker 6y ago
  I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the majority of people buying an iPhone 12 already have a mobile phone plan.
  - samatman 6y ago
    Sure, and some large number of those people bundle in their new phone with their existing plan, to either save some money or spread out the payment over more paychecks.
- VibrantClarity 6y ago
  In Canada the carriers show the cost of the plan and then tell you how much extra is tacked on for the phone. The prices are still outrageous here, but it is nice to be able to quickly tell how much money you save or lose by bundling it.
  - samatman 6y ago
    Seems like that's how it works here? https://www.verizon.com/basic-phones/?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D48197513561459695915435914929573567806%7CMCORGID%3D843F02BE53271A1A0A490D4C%2540AdobeOrg%7CTS%3D1602709519&mboxSession=f9a069efcfca43b09aaa7b13241f702e https://www.verizon.com/basic-phones/?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D48197... This is just a list of phones, plus how much extra a month you pay to get a phone with that plan.
    - VibrantClarity 6y ago
      Yes. They didn't advertise that way when I lived in the States a few years ago.

If I grant the second premise, could you explain your antipathy to the first? If I want to have a mobile phone, I need a mobile phone plan to go with it. What's wrong with bundling those services for a slightly lower total bill? It strikes me as pretty standard business logic.

ianai 6y ago
It begins to muddy the water about what you’re buying. It also leads people to spending more on a phone than they set out or budgeted. It doesn’t seem like much, but it is a shady practice-the kind “old Apple” wouldn’t have done.
- samatman 6y ago
  Just to be clear, are you saying paying for things on an installment plan is a shady practice? Easy to say if you can afford a new phone up front...
decker 6y ago
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the majority of people buying an iPhone 12 already have a mobile phone plan.
- samatman 6y ago
  Sure, and some large number of those people bundle in their new phone with their existing plan, to either save some money or spread out the payment over more paychecks.
VibrantClarity 6y ago
In Canada the carriers show the cost of the plan and then tell you how much extra is tacked on for the phone. The prices are still outrageous here, but it is nice to be able to quickly tell how much money you save or lose by bundling it.
- samatman 6y ago
  Seems like that's how it works here? https://www.verizon.com/basic-phones/?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D48197513561459695915435914929573567806%7CMCORGID%3D843F02BE53271A1A0A490D4C%2540AdobeOrg%7CTS%3D1602709519&mboxSession=f9a069efcfca43b09aaa7b13241f702e https://www.verizon.com/basic-phones/?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D48197... This is just a list of phones, plus how much extra a month you pay to get a phone with that plan.
  - VibrantClarity 6y ago
    Yes. They didn't advertise that way when I lived in the States a few years ago.