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It’s quite misleading to emphasize the cheapness of renewable generators themselves and not take into account the price of the storage they require and where it

It’s quite misleading to emphasize the cheapness of renewable generators themselves and not take into account the price of the storage they require and where it would go if there was demand for enough to keep the whole world running when the wind has lulls (and when electricity use peaks as the sun goes down). I’m glad Europe has scouted ahead, I hope we can learn from France’s 75% nuclear grid and nuclear “waste” recycling and comparing them to Germany’s much more expensive renewable path.

epistasis 6y ago
I think “misleading” is the wrong word to use here, but if it’s misleading to look at the drop in costs for offshore wind without talking about some of the challenges of deploying it, shouldn’t it also be “misleading” to talk about France’s nuclear fleet from the past as if they would be able to do it again? The future of France’s electrical grid is unlikely to be nuclear because their attempts to build replacements have been failures. I just came across this audit today: https://www.montelnews.com/en/story/more-pressure-for-french-epr/1156576 https://www.montelnews.com/en/story/more-pressure-for-french... Of the five attempted new reactors, only two have completed and have not been impressive financially. The auditing team found gross project mismanagement, but also found that there has been difficulty completing welding properly, and the large nuclear reactors inherently require massive amounts of high precision, high quality welding as a basis for the entire endeavor. Finally, it is quite misleading to generalize Germany’s renewables path to other countries, because they consciously financed the creation of an industry that now has exponentially falling costs. The entire world owes Germany a debt for kickstarting this virtuous cycle of product innovation and falling costs, as we will all benefit from their early work.
- boogies 6y ago
  Sorry to be unclear, and thanks for alerting me to it. I was talking about ongoing energy prices, not just initial infrastructure investment. According to the US Department of Energy, our reactors are expected to last for 80+ years.¹ But solar panels and wind turbines can wear out in 20. So I expect France’s energy to stay cheaper in the future, even if it takes a while to convert the last 25% to nuclear, and for Germany’s costs to continue rising, like California’s. Not to mention France’s 7 times lower CO₂ emissions per capita, or nuclear’s 400 times lower land use. ¹https://www.energy.gov/ne/articles/whats-lifespan-nuclear-reactor-much-longer-you-might-think https://www.energy.gov/ne/articles/whats-lifespan-nuclear-re...

epistasis 6y ago

I think “misleading” is the wrong word to use here, but if it’s misleading to look at the drop in costs for offshore wind without talking about some of the challenges of deploying it, shouldn’t it also be “misleading” to talk about France’s nuclear fleet from the past as if they would be able to do it again? The future of France’s electrical grid is unlikely to be nuclear because their attempts to build replacements have been failures. I just came across this audit today: https://www.montelnews.com/en/story/more-pressure-for-french-epr/1156576 https://www.montelnews.com/en/story/more-pressure-for-french... Of the five attempted new reactors, only two have completed and have not been impressive financially. The auditing team found gross project mismanagement, but also found that there has been difficulty completing welding properly, and the large nuclear reactors inherently require massive amounts of high precision, high quality welding as a basis for the entire endeavor. Finally, it is quite misleading to generalize Germany’s renewables path to other countries, because they consciously financed the creation of an industry that now has exponentially falling costs. The entire world owes Germany a debt for kickstarting this virtuous cycle of product innovation and falling costs, as we will all benefit from their early work.

boogies 6y ago
Sorry to be unclear, and thanks for alerting me to it. I was talking about ongoing energy prices, not just initial infrastructure investment. According to the US Department of Energy, our reactors are expected to last for 80+ years.¹ But solar panels and wind turbines can wear out in 20. So I expect France’s energy to stay cheaper in the future, even if it takes a while to convert the last 25% to nuclear, and for Germany’s costs to continue rising, like California’s. Not to mention France’s 7 times lower CO₂ emissions per capita, or nuclear’s 400 times lower land use. ¹https://www.energy.gov/ne/articles/whats-lifespan-nuclear-reactor-much-longer-you-might-think https://www.energy.gov/ne/articles/whats-lifespan-nuclear-re...