4 ms·

I know it's not really the point, but it's curious that the first thing in the document is a notice saying not to use the Z80 in life-support systems or in syst

I know it's not really the point, but it's curious that the first thing in the document is a notice saying not to use the Z80 in life-support systems or in systems intended to be implanted into the body, without written approval from high up in Zilog. I understand wanting to prohibit irresponsible use of your system, especially if it hasn't been built to critical-systems standards, but why single out life-support systems and implants? Would it be meaningfully different if it were used in avionics, or industrial safety systems? The dmc compiler does something similar to this, but more generally, without singling out life-support and implanted systems: Do not use this software for life critical applications. [0] [0] https://www.digitalmars.com/download/dmcpp.html https://www.digitalmars.com/download/dmcpp.html

foobarian 6y ago
Maybe because the physical chip itself has not been verified to operate correctly under various noisy conditions (x-rays, magnetic fields, cosmic ray errors...). E.g. launch computers like this [1] would use redundant circuits with majority voting, and even redundant voting logic. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Launch_Vehicle_Digital_Computer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Launch_Vehicle_Digital_Compute...
- MaxBarraclough 6y ago
  Perhaps. I'm surprised that article doesn't mention radiation. You're right of course that radiation-hardened chips are a very specialist area. Not often you can charge hundreds of thousands of dollars for a single CPU chip running at 200MHz or less. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAD750 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAD750
  - rbanffy 6y ago
    I'm really curious about the processes used to make these. Part of it is because it uses huge features, of course, but I wonder if there are other things to it such as the materials and the encapsulation.
    - eternauta3k 6y ago
      Then you might be interested in attending SERESSA: https://www.ufrgs.br/seressa2020/ https://www.ufrgs.br/seressa2020/
      - rbanffy 6y ago
        It has the IEEE logo. Looks expensive.
- a1369209993 6y ago
  Sure, that makes sense, but: > why single out life-support systems and implants? Would it be meaningfully different if it were used in avionics, or industrial safety systems? Or any other "life critical applications"?
  - kube-system 6y ago
    My guess is that "life-support systems" is what immediately came to mind when their legal council was contemplating potential realms of excessive liability.
dfox 6y ago
Disclaimer to that effect is included in essentially any integrated circuit datasheet and even in manuals for things like network switches and UPSes. I assume that the reason is that there is some US court case where component manufacturer was found liable for bodily harm caused by some kind of (obviously misdesigned) device where root cause was traced to failure of some trivial component made by said manufacturer.

foobarian 6y ago

Maybe because the physical chip itself has not been verified to operate correctly under various noisy conditions (x-rays, magnetic fields, cosmic ray errors...). E.g. launch computers like this [1] would use redundant circuits with majority voting, and even redundant voting logic. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Launch_Vehicle_Digital_Computer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Launch_Vehicle_Digital_Compute...

MaxBarraclough 6y ago
Perhaps. I'm surprised that article doesn't mention radiation. You're right of course that radiation-hardened chips are a very specialist area. Not often you can charge hundreds of thousands of dollars for a single CPU chip running at 200MHz or less. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAD750 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAD750
- rbanffy 6y ago
  I'm really curious about the processes used to make these. Part of it is because it uses huge features, of course, but I wonder if there are other things to it such as the materials and the encapsulation.
  - eternauta3k 6y ago
    Then you might be interested in attending SERESSA: https://www.ufrgs.br/seressa2020/ https://www.ufrgs.br/seressa2020/
    - rbanffy 6y ago
      It has the IEEE logo. Looks expensive.
a1369209993 6y ago
Sure, that makes sense, but: > why single out life-support systems and implants? Would it be meaningfully different if it were used in avionics, or industrial safety systems? Or any other "life critical applications"?
- kube-system 6y ago
  My guess is that "life-support systems" is what immediately came to mind when their legal council was contemplating potential realms of excessive liability.

dfox 6y ago

Disclaimer to that effect is included in essentially any integrated circuit datasheet and even in manuals for things like network switches and UPSes. I assume that the reason is that there is some US court case where component manufacturer was found liable for bodily harm caused by some kind of (obviously misdesigned) device where root cause was traced to failure of some trivial component made by said manufacturer.