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> So, these lines are not representative of an actual election day. So you claim. And yet we regularly see this kind of pictures on actual US election days. Fo

> So, these lines are not representative of an actual election day. So you claim. And yet we regularly see this kind of pictures on actual US election days. For example, a very quick DuckDuckGo image search for "us elections long lines" leads to this as the second hit: https://www.firstpost.com/photos/world-gallery/us-2012-election-images-long-long-lines-for-voting-517208-5.html https://www.firstpost.com/photos/world-gallery/us-2012-elect...

bpt3 6y ago
Here's hard data showing that long lines like these aren't the norm: https://medium.com/mit-election-lab/insights-into-voting-wait-time-from-the-2016-elections-performance-index-6693576e9b99 https://medium.com/mit-election-lab/insights-into-voting-wai...
- tom_mellior 6y ago
  Thanks for this! "Not the norm" is a bit of an over-interpretation though. That data shows that in many states such lines were indeed the norm until very recent reforms (as in, there is only one post-reform data point to go on). And that the reforms didn't help non-white voters to the same extent that they did white voters.
  - bpt3 6y ago
    The data shows that hours-long waits are not and haven't been the norm, as I stated. There is data on wait times from 4 elections in the article, none of which supports a claim that the wait times shown in the BBC article are at all normal. It's obvious that you're looking to draw a very specific conclusion regardless of the data presented, so best of luck with that.
    - tom_mellior 6y ago
      "Not the norm" is a cop-out. Is it the average person's experience? No, and nobody says that it is. The BBC article doesn't say that the average voter needs to wait for hours. But many voters do.
      - bpt3 6y ago
        It's not a cop-out, it's a summary of the facts, as opposed to your claims that "many" voters wait in lines like the ones shown in the article and the random picture you found. Like many of the individuals quoted in the BBC article, you know nothing about how voting in the US works and don't understand why people are choosing to stand in these lines right now, weeks before the actual election day and before all early voting locations are even open in many areas, but are very eager to make condescending comments. Thanks for confirming my suspicion that you have no interest in a discussion about anything other than your inaccurate, preconceived notions.
        tom_mellior 6y ago
        It's you who is being condescending. Anyway, we both seem to agree that people -- an unknown number, and certainly not the average voter -- stand in lines for hours to vote. I acknowledge that you think it's significant that they are choosing to do so.
- specialist 6y ago
  Correct. The sabotage is targeted. Per that cite, non whites experience longer waits.
  - bpt3 6y ago
    Agreed, and that's not acceptable, but no group is experiencing wait times of several hours each election, which seems to be the conclusion drawn by many readers of the BBC article.
    - specialist 6y ago
      There is so much evidence that people are denied the opportunity to vote. I'm still pissed off about blacks being turned away in Ohio 2004. They literally just closed and locked the doors. Telling the 1,000s of voters standing in the cold rain for hours to piss off. To cite one example. And it keeps happening.
      - bpt3 6y ago
        Yes, I haven't seen a single person saying that voting in the US is perfect or that no voter suppression takes place. What I am saying (and others are as well) is that the BBC article seems to be mischaracterising/misunderstanding what is happening with respect to the very long lines for in-person early voting in this specific case.
        specialist 6y ago
        Ok. We need a "Yes, and..." way to respond to issues, acknowledging the problem while vetting specific reports. Because I admit I read your responses as denial or concern trolling. Peace.

bpt3 6y ago

Here's hard data showing that long lines like these aren't the norm: https://medium.com/mit-election-lab/insights-into-voting-wait-time-from-the-2016-elections-performance-index-6693576e9b99 https://medium.com/mit-election-lab/insights-into-voting-wai...

tom_mellior 6y ago
Thanks for this! "Not the norm" is a bit of an over-interpretation though. That data shows that in many states such lines were indeed the norm until very recent reforms (as in, there is only one post-reform data point to go on). And that the reforms didn't help non-white voters to the same extent that they did white voters.
- bpt3 6y ago
  The data shows that hours-long waits are not and haven't been the norm, as I stated. There is data on wait times from 4 elections in the article, none of which supports a claim that the wait times shown in the BBC article are at all normal. It's obvious that you're looking to draw a very specific conclusion regardless of the data presented, so best of luck with that.
  - tom_mellior 6y ago
    "Not the norm" is a cop-out. Is it the average person's experience? No, and nobody says that it is. The BBC article doesn't say that the average voter needs to wait for hours. But many voters do.
    - bpt3 6y ago
      It's not a cop-out, it's a summary of the facts, as opposed to your claims that "many" voters wait in lines like the ones shown in the article and the random picture you found. Like many of the individuals quoted in the BBC article, you know nothing about how voting in the US works and don't understand why people are choosing to stand in these lines right now, weeks before the actual election day and before all early voting locations are even open in many areas, but are very eager to make condescending comments. Thanks for confirming my suspicion that you have no interest in a discussion about anything other than your inaccurate, preconceived notions.
      - tom_mellior 6y ago
        It's you who is being condescending. Anyway, we both seem to agree that people -- an unknown number, and certainly not the average voter -- stand in lines for hours to vote. I acknowledge that you think it's significant that they are choosing to do so.
specialist 6y ago
Correct. The sabotage is targeted. Per that cite, non whites experience longer waits.
- bpt3 6y ago
  Agreed, and that's not acceptable, but no group is experiencing wait times of several hours each election, which seems to be the conclusion drawn by many readers of the BBC article.
  - specialist 6y ago
    There is so much evidence that people are denied the opportunity to vote. I'm still pissed off about blacks being turned away in Ohio 2004. They literally just closed and locked the doors. Telling the 1,000s of voters standing in the cold rain for hours to piss off. To cite one example. And it keeps happening.
    - bpt3 6y ago
      Yes, I haven't seen a single person saying that voting in the US is perfect or that no voter suppression takes place. What I am saying (and others are as well) is that the BBC article seems to be mischaracterising/misunderstanding what is happening with respect to the very long lines for in-person early voting in this specific case.
      - specialist 6y ago
        Ok. We need a "Yes, and..." way to respond to issues, acknowledging the problem while vetting specific reports. Because I admit I read your responses as denial or concern trolling. Peace.